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Common runout groove etchings: how to list them

Started by Anonymous over 19 years ago, 351 replies

Anonymous over 19 years ago
This post is hidden because you reported it for abuse. dj_purity_control edited over 19 years ago
Hi folks,

Just thought I'd start a reference list of some common runout groove etchings, and how they should be properly listed in submissions. Some can be added as credits, others should be listed in notes only. If you have any others, please post them in this thread.

-----

Mastering info:

SIMON - THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Simon Davey

THE EXCHANGE - NILZ (or other variants)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Nilesh Patel

MIKE @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Mike Marsh

MANDY @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Mandy Parnell

Stu.
(or) Stu. @ Masterpiece.
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Stuart Hawkes

Herbie :^)
(or) HP F/W
(or) Herb :^) F/W
(or) Herbie Jr. :^)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Herb Powers Jr.

MASTERED BY CAPITOL Wally
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Wally Traugott

*-J.T.S.-* (or other variants)
   Add a note:
   Mastered at J.T.S.

Music House
   Add a note:
   Mastered at Music House.

LAWRIE @ CURVE PUSHER
(or) CURVE PUSHER.
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Lawrie Immersion

[/] @ CURVE PUSHER.
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Ashley Burchett

A Porky Prime Cut.
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - George Peckham

D+M (note; M has a hook on the end)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Moritz von Oswald

(spiral sign) @ D+M
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Robert Henke

an "A with M" sign
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Andy Mellwig

pole
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Pole

CGB
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Christoph Grote-Beverborg

andreas@schnittstelle
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Andreas Kauffelt

GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Guy Davie

TC
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Tom Coyne

CSB (with two musical notes)
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Carlton Batts

NSC
   Add a note:
   Mastered at National Sound Corporation, Detroit.

Trutone NY - PA
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Phil Austin

COPYMASTERS - Miles
   Add a credit:
   Mastered by - Miles Showell

Rashad
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Rashad Becker

Lupo
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Loop-o

MARTIN @ C.T.S.
   Add a credit:
   Mastered by - Martin Giles

C.T.S. Wembley
   Add a note:
   Mastered at C.T.S. Studios, Wembley.

FW RCE
   Add a credit:
   Mastered By - Rick Essig

SST
   Add a note:
   Mastered at Schallplatten Schneid Technik, Frankfurt, .

-----

Pressing plant info:

EUROPADISK
   Add a note:
   Pressed at Europadisk, NYC, New York.

DAMONT
   Add a note:
   Pressed at Damont Audio Limited.

ORLAKE
   Add a note:
   Pressed at Orlake Records.

MPO
   Add a note:
   Pressed at MPO Averton.

DFI
   Add a note:
   Pressed at DFI.

WMME Alsdorf
   Add a note:
   Pressed at Warner Music Manufacturing Europe, Alsdorf, .

-----

MOST WANTED IDENTIFICATIONS:

- PAUL S @ PORKY'S ?
- Neil Masterpiece ??
- Dave W - Masterpiece ???
- ANDY '92 ????

-----

Others will be added as they are discovered. Thanks to raulus for the additions.

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What no 'Porky Prime Cuts' :o(

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Spy_On_Summer edited over 19 years ago
HP F/W
Herb :^) FW
Herbie Jr :^)

is also

mastered by Herb Powers Jr. (at Frankford/Wayne)

edit: update

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Amended, thanks PD4U and SOS :)

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Great thread!

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I know the guy who cut the records at "D+M" here in Berlin.

when D+M the "M" letter is with a "hook" at the end, cut by Moritz von Oswald.
a spiral sign @D+M =is cut by Robert Henke
an "A with M" sign =Andy Mellwig (Porter Ricks)
pole= Pole (Stephan Betke)
CGB= Christoph Grote-Beverborg
lupo=...(forgot sorry)
rashad=...(I will edit the last 2 when I find the info back)

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SST= 1:1 cuts by Mrs. Brüggemann (Frankfurt, )
andreas@schnittstelle=Andreas Kauffelt

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Not sure what you mean by the SST one? What does it say in the groove, and who should it be credited to?

Added all the rest, thanks.

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909_bd edited over 19 years ago
SST = Schallplatten Schneid Technik (name of the company). The woman who cuts there does fairly good 1:1 vinyl cuts of mastered CDR or DATs. Her family name (all I know) is Brüggemann.

Some pressing plants also cut things (also pretty much 1:1):
"MPO" is only the company name of a french plant, they sometimes also add the "MPO" sign if the cut was done by someone else and they only do the mechanical pressing.
same with "DFI" another french plant.

There are couple more guys cutting at Curvepusher (namely Phase (Ashley Burchett) of Cosmic/ Inceptive records - a Zero with a stroke through sign) and also Exchange (there is a woman cutting too).

change the "CGM" to CGB" in the topic above (typo) for the d+M guy

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Excellent.

This needs to go sticky at least and eventually into the Submission Guide.

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Gecks edited over 19 years ago
MANDY @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
Add a credit:
Mastered By - Mandy Parnell

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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OK, added the rest, except for SST -- see if you can get me a full name as I'd rather have a full name to link it to rather than "Mrs. Brüggemann".

Thanks guys :)

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whoops, it's parnell with 2 'l's :/ i have fixed my link, so please do the one up top too, thanks :)

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Fixed it, thanks for the catch.

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md edited over 19 years ago
let's not forget Guy Davie, also of The Exchange, Camden. Signs off his cuts with GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE if I right. Would have to check at home.

I know that Cut By has been raised in the mod forum as a possible addition to the list of credits. All those taken from run out grooves would belong under that role, if it comes into being.

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TC - Carlton Batts
NSC - National Sound Corporation, Detroit
Trutone NY - PA is probably Phil Austin

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NSC used to be solely Ron Murphy (except some very early stuff), now also Heath Brunner.

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as discussed previously DJPC:

SST is a good example: as bd_909 points out:
she/her family is doing the vinyl cuts, but no MASTERING!!!

I'd be keen to know if you can proove a 100% percent, if all of the persons above listed would do MASTERING & CUTTING for each release they're cutting! unless it's mentioned somewherer, I'd be car3eful with adding Mastering credits just on basis of an etching!

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Wow - very keen! Thanks for this - I think it should go into the Release Guidelines, along with the Label Codes when things are more solidified (or even now, and things could be updated continually).

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What does "F/W" stand for? It seems to show up on a lot of them, but with different names.

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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F/W is Frankford Wayne Mastering Labs in NYC.

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COPYMASTERS - Miles
Add a credit
Mastered by - Miles Showell (proof)

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Rather interesting & all that, but is it important? I only mention messages etched in runout grooves....

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Given that Discogs now allows for inclusion of all credits, I'd say this is very helpful - lots of pressings with little info can be connected to the proper mastering people to releases. Total information inclusion, and all that =)

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I don't know if any of these chappies etch their work, but Masterpiece has a current list of audio engineers.

I found it while looking for any mention of who "Neil Masterpiece" is, with no luck. Anyone else know?

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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You could always them -- I tried the same with the Exchange a while back and was pleasantly surprised to receive a response.

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I thought I'd ask here, as I wasn't sure how fast I'd get a reply from the company itself, and it seems it might well be a while (nothing after a day, so far).

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Great thread, thank you. :))

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MILES - COPYMASTERS

that's the one who cutted Adam X's Listen RMXS on Fabulous(FABU008), maybe Adam can his real name . . .

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*cutted, mastered* one of these two anyway ;)

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Bunker, see donnacha's post above for the answer to that one. :)

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D+M
D&M
?

no hooks or @'s. whats that mean? refering to the Basic Replay records.

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I don't know if this is much or any help, but as a reply to the Dubplates and Mastering post by 909_bd:

Rashad is Rashad Becker (or Rashad (2), as he appears on some records).
I don't know about Lupo, I've named him Lupo (3) when I updated Berlinette. Perhaps that was a mistake, but I couldn't find any detailed information on him anywhere.

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Sorry. A bit of work, but I think I found it. Wolfgang Schubert or Loop-o. At least that seems correct. Advice on updating Berlinette again would be appreciated; I should probably merge them or what?

Thanks.

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This is a good progression of Discogs - I've been silently wishing 4 this since I came along - Thanx Y'all !

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Why is this not a sticky ?
cul - these are cut by Moritz von Oswald

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909_bd, as you were the one to give detailed information about D&M pressings, perhaps you can tell me (us) what Rashad Becker engraves in the records. (I was trying to make out what it was, but all I could distinguish, from a relatively thin strip of vinyl, was a circle with some markings in it, plus the letters "A D&M".

Thanks.

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Masterpiece seems to be a problem for me as well as some others. I have a Dream City Film Club 7", which has "Dave W - Masterpiece" engraved; alas, I couldn't find useful information. If anyone has knowledge about this, please.

Thanks.

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Just added a bunch more that had been posted, plus a couple I've discovered, and added a "most wanted" section for those that need to be identified.

Also, can someone please make this a sticky thread? It was already turned on for edits, so please if we could keep this useful info up near the top.

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Neil Masterpiece: Neil Devine, though I guess he no longer works there (found this from an Archive.org page -- linkee! - unfortunately, his profile is easily accessable -- check it here, though you have to scroll a bit). Apparently he was with Masterpiece in London for around a decade, because when they finally updated their site in September 2004, he was no longer on their roster.

Some backing up: linkee about a lone release by a chap named Fangle on a label called Emu Records. They also seem to be lost back in 2004.

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haha - seems that Discogs itself holds the answer to Paul S @ Porky's >> see Paul Solomons' profile >> Mastering engineer working at Porky's Mastering in London. =)

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And I'm guessing that Andy '92 is Andy Pearce, Masterpiece's only specialist in audio restoration (direct link to bio).

But this is only a guess. I wasn't able to find any site linking the list of his recent works and Andy '92 (though he won a lot of awards in 1992 and 1993, it seems).

And while I'm posting a third time in a row, does the name Nachtigal At Home sound familiar? I'm not sure if the whole name is "Nachtigal At Home" or simply "Nachtigal". Yes, I'm doing a bit of cross-posting, but the topic at hand is mastering artists / credits.

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Another one for the most wanted list:

Tim D. Masterpiece

Noticed this etched on a few of my tunes.

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Mike: how old are your records? All I can find on current or Archive.org pages for MasterpieceLondon.com is a Tony Dixon, who does CD mastering/ editing. Given, the archives only go back to 2002.

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deejsasqui, The records in question are from 1999 and were released on the Quosh label. I'll dig out some of their earlier releases as well when I get a chance to see if it's the same.

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Seems like he might not work there anymore. Too bad the company wasn't too forthcoming with info on their past employees.

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ismistik edited over 19 years ago
PCMJR
MMMJR
or M.M.M.J.R.
or Metropolis Mastering Chicago M.J.R.

Mastered By - Mark Richardson (3)

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good thread DJP, I'll add a few in awhile.

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Is 'cut by' a fully sanctioned credit now?

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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No, it's not. It's not listed in the guide, and I would advise against using it, as vinyl mastering is what many of the aforementioned artists do.

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Regarding John Golden.

I saw "JG" engraved in the run-out groove of Low's "Trust", accompanied by "GOLDEN" (it's pressed with a stamp rather than engraved). Other records that Golden mastered didn't have the "JG". But still, it's worth mentioning.

Hence, "GOLDEN" would have to mean it's mastered at Golden Mastering. But there's a snag-- Arcade Fire's "Funeral" has the "GOLDEN" stamp as well, but the sleeve notes say "Mastered by Ryan Morey at Disques SNB, Montréal". I don't know about this.

Also, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea" "GS" engraved, in addition to "GOLDEN". The sleeve says nothing about who mastered the record.

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Idiots guide to the difference between vinyl cutting and vinyl mastering?

Is vinyl mastering the thing that needs to be done before the cutting and isnt usually supervised by the vinyl masterer, but sometimes is eg: Cern White_II

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*Most* times it is done on the spot (for anything after 1990, especially electronic music) - mastering and cut is one process, done by the same person, the cutting engineer (thats what this thread is trying to do).
Places that do simple "transfers" (without any mastering, i.e. adjusting eq, level and compression/ limiting setting) are NOT the norm nowadays. SST/ Brüggemann and the pressing plant MPO are the only one I know around here.
One label I know which never did any mastering on their pressings is Djax Records - I think they all get cut at some cheap place in Holland.
Another place I can add is FOON Mastering Lier, Belgium. http://www.foon.be they cut tons of techno records, Music Man, R+S all that.

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dj_purity_control, do you mind if I add this list to my forum about bootlegs?

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About NSC... Why not add Ron Murphy? You can see from his handwriting in the run outs that it is him....

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Anyone know what Ray at The Exchange's full name is? He's not on their website.

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Aha, got him:
Ray Staff
http://www.alchemysoho.com/html/alchemy.php?sp=engineer2a

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Ray Staff

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Well, apparently I can't edit the top post on this anymore.

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Or any post, for that matter. Not exactly sure when that happened, even after the edit lockout I was still able to presumably because I thought this thread was flagged. *sigh*

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I hope you'll be able to edit the top post again...

I have a one more etching: Carter USM - "30 Something" LP on Rough Trade, it has Damont on the runout groove (already on the list) and also TOWNHOUSE DMM (not on the list) on the runout groove. The sleeve notes says "Mastered by Kevin Metcalf at The Townhouse". Maybe something to add to the list...

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re: Mike H's post above, there was definitely a Tim at Masterpiece. He did 2 or 3 of my early cuts. Don't think I ever knew what the D stands for though.

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Perhaps we could create a "Runout Grooves Decyphering" page in the help.discogs section? Also including a vague range of dates someone worked there would be good (if someone is no longer listed on the mastering company's site, I'd take it that they no longer work there =)

And when looking at company sites, don't forget Archive.org, which could contain an older list of employees.

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Speaking of runout grooves, are they done by a machine, or does someone etch it in?

Like a cheap Indonesian worker who is paid €5 a week to do it??

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Both, depending on where it's done. You can easily tell, a machine stamp has uniform characters, hand etchings look like they were done by hand. In either case, they are done by the cutting engineer at the time the lacquer is cut. The processing/pressing plant (e.g. MPO) will also often add their mark.

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STICKY

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About Tim D Masterpiece: It's Tim Dennen.

I was also wondering about Decomposed Subsonic / Hartmut Wessling. I don't own any releases he's mastered, so if anyone could say what he engraves in the runout grooves, that would be great. Perhaps this could be cleared up so that those mastering credits will go under his real name, even if the label says "Decomposed Subsonic".

Thanks.

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Joe Yannece (at The Hit Factory) etched at least one record with J.Y., but there's also RE2, with the E looking like a backwards 3. Anyone know about that etching?

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Or how about Km, along with HB1 (possibily ItB1) and HUBTV? This is from a 1500 Records from 1998.

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"Both, depending on where it's done. You can easily tell, a machine stamp has uniform characters, hand etchings look like they were done by hand. In either case, they are done by the cutting engineer at the time the lacquer is cut."

ON the handwritten ones, does that mean they are all unique? how does a machine copy the handwriting of the master copy? the handwriting isnt in a 'circular' format.

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cul, I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I think you're asking if on a handwritten run-out groove the etching is made one record per time? If so, the answer is no. If that is what you're asking, I think you maybe misunderstand the manufacturing process - records are not manufactured by cutting each vinyl disc one at a time. Only the master is cut while spinning, the end product is pressed. Perhaps this link will explain it better: http://www.lowliferecords.freeserve.co.uk/independent/process.htm

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There was a nice educational video on the Slices DVD, showing how vinyl records are made.

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hmmm, I have that DVD at home, haven't watched any of it yet.

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Ah-ha!

yes there was def some confusion on my part. i had it in my head that all records were cut not pressed. thanks for the info.

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Anonymous over 19 years ago
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Bumping.

It would be really nice if this thread was made sticky in this forum, and editing was turned on.

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lol...i just searched for this earlier.

Cheers dj_purity_control

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I also had to search for the LabelCodes thread but can`t bump it cos i`m not invited!
Could you do it dj_purity_control

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For when this becomes a sticky or something:
Mika Jussila engraved "Finnvox MJ" into a 7" by Röövel Ööbik (1989). Notes on another release state that MJFX is etched, so these two should be mentioned as his acronyms.
Cheers.

P.S. dj_purity_control, I hope you got my message about those D&M engineers.

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@ Weasle - why not use the Save This Topic function so you can locate threads more easily? It's at the top-right of the thread.

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@ md DOH never noticed that b4...cheers

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Here's a new one - on Pagan Lovesong Nix Mix Townhouse - any ideas?

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"Pauls' The Exchange"
Credit= Mastered By Paul Solomon.
Found this info on an old subbase label from 1992.
Label says "Engineer Paul Solomon" and the runout groove reads: "Pauls-The Exchange"
same guy?? I would like to think so.
Let me know.
Cheers...Mr.B

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requested this to be stuck and edits allowed.

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Anyone here got any decent info/links on WALLY (Traugott)?

I'm thrilled about this thread and I've been spending way too much time updating mastering credits whenever I can.

I did find this interesting link:
Capitol has a Mastering website!

But Wally don't work there anymore. I gave up after a half hour of googling, though I don't pretend to be great at it.

Side note: those of you who are sitting on old DATs should read what Capitol has to say about old digital (or analog) tapes.
Don't sleep!

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@ donnacha, I think Nix is Larry Nix

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Mastered by Lionel & Hervé @ Translab.

Masterd by Hervé Bordes @ Translab.

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^ well, i could be wrong, but it looks like Lionel Nicod @ Translab, Paris !
i have a release with the (barely readable) runout groove etching
LO @ Translab (which also could be IO)...

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I've seen BA-CR on many records, any idea what that is?

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Frankford Wayne with a drawing of a PEACH or APPLE?

This one is very common in the 80's and 90's.
Always hand-written, "FW" with a piece of fruit logo.

Anyone know who this is?

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downtown.music edited over 19 years ago
dj_purity_control wrote:

"F/W is Frankford Wayne Mastering Labs in NYC."

Except when it's FW in Philadelphia, which was their home base "back in the day", starting in 1967.

They opened a NYC branch in 1973, and did a lot of seminal work, and Herb Powers was a very busy man (and still is to this day, but mainly working in the digital domain at his own company).

During the 80's and especially the 90's "FW" hand-written could possibly be either location.
But I don't know when they closed and sold the Philadelphia operation.
Usually they use(d) a die-stamper with the address, and then the engineer would (maybe) add his signature.

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Previously,
md wrote:

"let's not forget Guy Davie, also of The Exchange, Camden. Signs off his cuts with GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE if I right. Would have to check at home."

I have a release in my hands that's inscribed "The Exchange - GD"
which must be another variation for this cutting engineer.

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Zyron edited over 18 years ago
BA-CR is Björn Almstedt at Cutting Room, Stockholm.

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Any ideas about "Tom D." in conjunction woth MPO?

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Also on the fluoro orange Ionized/Kabalah by Astral Projection there is a big O above the cat. no.

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Oh and

STICKY!

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Yay!!

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I'm suggesting F.A. as one of the engravings for Frank Arkwright. He etched these into Squarepusher's "Hard Normal Daddy".

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How about PR-M?
I have this on Transmissions by Juno Reactor, on NovaMute

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Oh I just noticed Townhouse on that one as well...

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I have some records with 'JA' (assuming that's who mastered it) and also 'OR' engraved elsewhere on the runout (maybe the pressing plant?). These are on some UK Drum & Bass tunes. Any help would be appreciated.

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