Artist X of Band Y ANV?

This question has been asked before, Tom Jones & Cerys* - Baby, It's Cold Outside
Is Cerys from Catatonia a valid ANV or should it just be Cerys?

Pinging Diognes_The_Fox for a staff viewpoint.

andygrayrecords
Is Cerys from Catatonia a valid ANV or should it just be Cerys?

It should be just Cerys, AFAIK.

There should be a couple more discussions somewhere, but the idea is that the band name is there just to help to identify the artist, and is not really part of the artist name.

auboisdormant
It should be just Cerys, AFAIK.

There should be a couple more discussions somewhere, but the idea is that the band name is there just to help to identify the artist, and is not really part of the artist name.

agree, I would also add a note saying "X is credited as "X from band Y" (but I would create a new PAN if credited X Y like Iggy Stooge...)

auboisdormant
It should be just Cerys, AFAIK.

i think so too that it is just an ment/hype type thing
but the artist in question seems to be credited that way a few times
if you view the artist page so maybe an alias would be better such as :
https://www.discogs.sie.com/artist/276380-Cerys-Matthews?filter_anv=1&anv=Cerys+From+Catatonia
it's ugly as hell as ANV and wrong IMO and the hype name seems intentional
so while i agree it is hype or for reference/identification whatever...
Alias maybe a better option than not using the From/of Catatonia part when crediting
as i guess it will be used again and wrongly added here again via the ANV

auboisdormant
There should be a couple more discussions somewhere, but the idea is that the band name is there just to help to identify the artist, and is not really part of the artist name.

I really do hope this is the outcome.

Oh and that's a terrible picture of the two of them.

auboisdormant
It should be just Cerys, AFAIK.

There should be a couple more discussions somewhere, but the idea is that the band name is there just to help to identify the artist, and is not really part of the artist name.

agreed

I this. It's probably more suitable in the release notes.

Diognes_The_Fox
I this. It's probably more suitable in the release notes.

Thanks...will update the Tom & Cerys release accordingly.
Any chance of a guideline addition?
2.5.12 When an artist is billed as [artistname] of [band] only the artist name is credited. Or whatever :)

andygrayrecords
Any chance of a guideline addition?
2.5.12 When an artist is billed as [artistname] of [band] only the artist name is credited. Or whatever :)

+1 here or else

SeRKeT
i guess it will be used again and wrongly added here again via the ANV

Just saw this thread. I used to agree, but I've come to believe that 'X Of Y' can be super helpful/informative when it's used for credits especially when it's for some kind of a musical performer credit role.

Diognes_The_Fox do you advise removing these types of ANVs when we come across those or is it more of a personal preference thing?

Rocket From Crypt (leave)
Lemmy From Motorhead (nix)

Another example? Rod Stewart - Every Picture Tells A Story - note the Mandolin credit.

berothbr
Diognes_The_Fox do you advise removing these types of ANVs when we come across those or is it more of a personal preference thing?

Probably? I feel like there could be some situation where it'd make more sense to leave the ANV, but I'm not sure.

andygrayrecords
2.5.12 When an artist is billed as [artistname] of [band] only the artist name is credited.

Everyone still on board with this?

Diognes_The_Fox
andygrayrecords
2.5.12 When an artist is billed as [artistname] of [band] only the artist name is credited.

Everyone still on board with this?

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
Everyone still on board with this?

Yeah, that's my preference.

berothbr
but I've come to believe that 'X Of Y' can be super helpful/informative when it's used for credits especially when it's for some kind of a musical performer credit role.

Respectfully, if it's added to the notes it'll still show up in the search, so I don't see the benefit of having "John of xyz" as a credit.

Diognes_The_Fox
Everyone still on board with this?

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
Probably? I feel like there could be some situation where it'd make more sense to leave the ANV, but I'm not sure.

andygrayrecords
Respectfully, if it's added to the notes it'll still show up in the search, so I don't see the benefit of having "John of xyz" as a credit.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like seeing ANVs used for this (at least on credits) because it tends to add some quirky context and helps with name recognition. I also don't see the harm. On the other hand, I came across Layzie Bone & Young Noble - Thug Brothers the other day and immediately posted a comment (not the same thing, but kind of takes this one step further).

FWIW, track 26 on Funk Master Flex* - The Mix Tape Volume III 60 Minutes Of Funk (The Final Chapter) is an example of a 'X Of Y' ANV that I personally like to see and think it provides helpful context.

Diognes_The_Fox
Everyone still on board with this?

yep, count me in :D

RSG §2.5.12. When an artist is billed as [artistname] of [band] only the artist name is credited.

Diognes_The_Fox
Everyone still on board with this?

Does that suggestion mean Main Artists, Track Artists or Credits? Or all?

Diognes_The_Fox
Everyone still on board with this?

It should probly be mentioned that artist x is credited ass "artist x of band y" should/can be added to the notes Section, as that might be a diferenting factor between different version of a release

i would love to see that we could add featured artists in the order they appear on the release with ers so we could add exactly as on release. But thats maybe a topic for a different tread

Added as RSG §2.5.10. Apparently there was a gap between 9 and 11.

Diognes_The_Fox
Added as RSG §2.5.10. Apparently there was a gap between 9 and 11.

So nothing about that the full [Artistname] of [Band] can/should be added to the notes section? Or are we not suposed to do that?

Diognes_The_Fox
Added as RSG §2.5.10.

Yes! Thank you! So now we can finally get rid of this kind of nonsense?
https://www.discogs.sie.com/artist/276380-Cerys-Matthews?filter_anv=1&anv=Cerys+Matthews+Of+Catatonia

The "Of Catatonia" or "From Catatonia" part is really just a way of identifying WHICH Cerys this might be (since the band's name is more famous than a member).

Silvermo
So nothing about that the full [Artistname] of [Band] can/should be added to the notes section? Or are we not suposed to do that?

You don't HAVE to although it may be useful for the sake of completeness (and searchability).

berothbr
'X Of Y' can be super helpful/informative when it's used for credits especially when it's for some kind of a musical performer credit role.

I agree that this is helpful, and should be added to the notes (and not an ANV) whenever possible.

I agree with the principle, but the actual new guideline is hard to read and understand.

andygrayrecords's wording is nice and short, I just think it would be more understandable with an example.
E.g. If a credit reads 'Cerys From Catatonia' you should enter PAN Cerys Matthews, ANV Cerys.

Actually, the first paragraph RSG §2.5.1 is a bit dense too, and would benefit from some plain English.

epet
I agree that this is helpful, and should be added to the notes (and not an ANV) whenever possible.

Yes, I would add this to the guideline:

RSG §2.5.10. When an artist is billed as [Artist Name] of [Band] only the artist name is credited. The band be mentioned in the Release Notes.

In light of the "as on release" principle, I do find this a weird decision. The artist is credited as such on the release, why not simply enter that here ? In my opinion, this guideline is totally not necessary. Based on experience, I doubt that many people will enter the name "as it appears on the release" in the release notes anyway. Not to mention that it will look strange there considering the "as on release" principle and the guideline that the release notes should not be used for information that can be stored in other fields, like ANVs.

DonHergeFan
RSG §2.5.10. When an artist is billed as [Artist Name] of [Band] only the artist name is credited. The band may be mentioned in the Release Notes.

Updated, bold word is my edit. :)

Diognes_The_Fox
DonHergeFanRSG §2.5.10. When an artist is billed as [Artist Name] of [Band] only the artist name is credited. The band may be mentioned in the Release Notes.

Updated, bold word is my edit. :)

That looks fine to me

Apart from the concerns I posted earlier, the proposed guideline is also worded a bit strangely. It doesn't really tell what the is supposed to do. Better would be "When an artist is credited as [Artist Name] of [Band], enter only the artist name."

All in all, I'm surprised site management s this guideline since they seemed to be a er of leaner, more straightforward guidelines (re: stereo guideline). This new guideline only makes data entry more complicated.