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zin edited over 8 years ago
it's been requested many times before, hundreds of hiphop releases all over the database are incorrectly tagged as Albums, EPs or Compilation, and they're not.
Mixtape =/= DJ Mix -
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I was almost ready to create a new thread in the developement section, asking about the same thing, but I decided to check for an already existing one first. Nowadays, with the widespread use of internet, more and more, and not necessarily hip hop artists, decide to release a mixtape for free through internet. Even the complete deletion of the format in the already submitted mixtapes would not finally help, because half of them would be listed as albums and the rest would be listed in the miscellaneous section, depending on the number of the tracks they include. At least the album section could be renamed to "Albums & Mixtapes", so that it includes the mixtapes, too. -
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Yes, please! ++++1 -
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What is a mixtape if it's not a compilation? -
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Dear hmvh, a mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project. A compilation album is a collection of already released songs, greatest hits or remixes for example. -
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Ah, so it's an album. Understood. -
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Or neither an album, nor a compilation, but something unique enough to deserve its own description. -
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-1. Notes will suffice. -
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Then how are they supposed to be marked as? Album, compilation, none...? And where are they supposed to be listed? Albums, miscellaneous...? Not very clear in my opinion. -
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littleislander
but something unique enough to deserve its own description.
Agreed. So +1 for adding Mixtape. -
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I'm OK with adding "Mixtape".
(A somewhat related format request that also still needs attention: https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/697729 ) -
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Mixtape is not a format in the slightest. -
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Can someone make a proper request?
You need to explain when should the tag be used? content related or marketing gimmick?
Where should the releases tagged mixtape appear? on long durations or dj mixes?
Can the tag be used with other tags (comps, albums, etc) ? -
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StaticGuru
Mixtape is not a format in the slightest.
Please present your evidence. -
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A mix tape looks to be nothing more than a promotional compilation on a cassette. We already have these three format options. So why do we need a new one, really ? -
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-1 for mix tape -
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littleislender
a mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project. A compilation album is a collection of already released songs, greatest hits or remixes for example.
As I wrote in a comment above. Neither ep, nor album, nor compilation, not necessarily issued in a cassette. -
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StaticGuru
doesn't exist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtape_(disambiguation) (No own Wikipedia entry yet)
Mixtape in hip hop culture, a non-album release to generate exposure for the artist
jweijde
So why do we need a new one, really ?
Because it's obviously being used for a very particular purpose.
And no, please don't confuse such Mixtapes with your bedroom mixtapes.
So while I personally will likely never have a reason to use "Mixtape" on any of my submissions or items in my collection, I still can understand that there's a specific need for it. -
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You didn't just give a Wikipedia link as proof, did you? -
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mrmystery The truth is that the wikipedia link was an insignificant proof or source of information, but why don't you give your reasons why you disagree? You have simply stated that you disagree so far. -
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littleislander
You have simply stated that you disagree so far.
You want me to use more words to say the exact same thing I already did? -
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This thread is going nowhere. Could we have some examples please? -
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denizen
Could we have some examples please?
Yes of course:
Kali Uchis - Drunken Babble
Just a few of the mixtapes I ed the past few days. Some of them are incorrectly tagged as albums. I submitted Every Night was listed as a miscellaneous release, although I didn't tag as album either.
mrmystery
You want me to use more words to say the exact same thing I already did?
I want arguments, instead of simple words. If you can't prove that it exists, well some of us can. Therefore, the fact that you don't have evidence because it doesn't exist, and that it doesn't exist because it doesn't exist is not an argument. Not even a sophism. -
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littleislander
I want arguments, instead of simple words.
phallancz
Can someone make a proper request?
You need to explain when should the tag be used? content related or marketing gimmick?
Where should the releases tagged mixtape appear? on long durations or dj mixes?
Can the tag be used with other tags (comps, albums, etc) ? -
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jweijde
A mix tape looks to be nothing more than a promotional compilation on a cassette.
that is a completely incorrect and absurd statement. First of all, mixtapes have long been issued on CDs, file and even vinyl. Second, most mixtapes are not compilations at all (at least the official ones aren't). Many many artists record specific releases that are not supposed to be albums (because they often lack the funds for a full record or because the style of music is different so the label doesn't want to allocate funds for a marketing campaign a proper album would receive). -
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Dear phallancz, I think I have clearly expressed why I would like mixtape to be added in the format list.
littleislander
Even the complete deletion of the format in the already submitted mixtapes would not finally help, because half of them would be listed as albums and the rest would be listed in the miscellaneous section, depending on the number of the tracks they include. At least the album section could be renamed to "Albums & Mixtapes", so that it includes the mixtapes, too.
a mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project. A compilation album is a collection of already released songs, greatest hits or remixes for example.
Neither ep, nor album, nor compilation, not necessarily issued in a cassette. -
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littleislander
Or neither an album, nor a compilation, but something unique enough to deserve its own description.
For Discogs albums are any full length recordings which are not compilations. It's an album.
denizen
This thread is going nowhere.
That's what I'm hoping. Put me down for -1. It isn't a different format.
littleislander
Then how are they supposed to be marked as? Album, compilation, none...?
None. -
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I'm honestly not sure what the big deal is here. We have tags for Single, Maxi Single, EP, Album which are all about the same thing: pure marketing . There is no harm at all adding a mixtape tag. No harm at all -
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littleislander
Dear phallancz, I think I have clearly expressed why I would like mixtape to be added in the format list.
phallancz
You need to explain when should the tag be used? content related or marketing gimmick?
Where should the releases tagged mixtape appear? on long durations or dj mixes?
Can the tag be used with other tags (comps, albums, etc) ?
If you are incapable of addressing any of my questions, do you actually believe that discogs management is going to add this tag? -
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littleislander
the fact that you don't have evidence because it doesn't exist
Again: how is it possible to prove something doesn't exist? -
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Drunken Babble listed as album. Seems like not all the mistapes are perceived the same way.
Fauni-Gena
Massive Attack - Interview, marked as miscellaneous.
For Discogs albums are any full length recordings which are not compilations. It's an album. -
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littleislander
taklit-sarut check Every Night, marked as none, listed as a miscellaneous release. Drunken Babble listed as album. Seems like not all the mistapes are perceived the same way.
That depends entirely on length. My honest reaction would be "So what?"
littleislander
as it's not an album, marked as album.
No, it is NOT marked as an album. It is sorted, by length, in the album section of the page. Album is a misnomer there. It really is albums and other full length recordings.
littleislander
Massive Attack - Interview, marked as miscellaneous.
Which means it's not a full length recording.
Again: so what?
syke
There is no harm at all adding a mixtape tag. No harm at all
It's a loosely defined term that will add confusion, as if we don't have enough of that already.
Seriously, no sale. Still a big -1 from me.
phallancz
do you actually believe that discogs management is going to add this tag?
I hope not. There is no uniformly agreed upon definition. -
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phallancz
If you are incapable of addressing any of my questions, do you actually believe that discogs management is going to add this tag?
It's not clearly not a gimmick. A mixtape is a bunch of songs that do not constitute a certain project. Scrapped tracks or new tracks. And that's how they are available through internet, at least the ones I know.
See, http://lo-fang.com/ (scroll down), http://www.datpiff.com/Lion-Babe-Sun-t-mixtape.790394.html
Long durations or dj mixes? Probably long durations. And no, if it's a mistape, it's a mixtape in this case. Neither an album, nor an ep, nor a compilation. All these formats constitute a certain project. I may not be able to adress your questions, but I will make an effort. -
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Fauni-Gena
Which means it's not a full length recording.
Then, what is a full lenght recording?
Fauni-Gena
Again: so what?
It is just not accurate in my opinion and it causes confusion. It's indeed not a big deal to include the mixtape as format. -
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Fauni-Gena
It isn't a different format.
Wrong.
You just don't understand (yet?) what it is. ;)
Fauni-Gena
It's a loosely defined term that will add confusion
Obviously it is now a precisely defined term.
(Nonetheless, apparently it seems to confuse some, for the time being at least.)
Fauni-Gena
Still a big -1 from me.
You made your point already.
Or did you…?
Fauni-Gena
as if we don't have enough of that already.
Is this an argument?
Give me a break.
I don't want to eat my food with a spoon, a fork and a knife! We've been eating food with our hands for a hundred thousand of years and it was so good! I am now totally confused which device to use for which food!
:) -
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............................................... -
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littleislander
It's not clearly not a gimmick. A mixtape is a bunch of songs that do not constitute a certain project. Scrapped tracks or new tracks. And that's how they are available through internet, at least the ones I know.
It is a gimmick: Death Grips - Ex Military
loukash
Obviously it is now a precisely defined term.
No it isn't -
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Is Ex Military supposed to be a mixtape? I can only say about the releases I own. -
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littleislander
Is Ex Military supposed to be a mixtape?
Yes that what the group called it, therefore the term is a gimmick, artists use it as they please, so it cannot be content related and there really isn't a proper definition. -
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jweijde
A mix tape looks to be nothing more than a promotional compilation on a cassette.
syke
First of all, mixtapes have long been issued on CDs, file and even vinyl.
Why is it called a tape then ?
syke
Second, most mixtapes are not compilations at all (at least the official ones aren't).
There are several sites defining the term mixtape as a cassette compilation containing mostly previously unreleased recordings. Are they wrong? -
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Well, in my opinion it's all about how the release is marketed. It was released for free as I read here and it may not be a very consistent release, as far as it concerns the music or the lyrics. I don't know, I havent listened to it. But it's all about how the artists want it either way. I have eps and albums that both last for about thirty minutes. Releases were marked this way, depending on how the artists wanted them to be marketed as. Mixtapes cannot actually market, it's like a free album. The only difference is that a free album is project, maybe? All the songs were supposed to be a part of it? -
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littleislander
Well, in my opinion it's all about how the release is marketed.
I agree, it's mostly a marketing gimmick without a real definition.
littleislander
It was released for free as I read here and it may not be a very consistent release
?????
littleislander
But it's all about how the artists want it either way.
So it has nothing to do with being free?
littleislander
Mixtapes cannot actually market, it's like a free album.
You are not making any sense
littleislander
The only difference is that a free album is project, maybe?
So mixtapes are free albums?
littleislander
All the songs were supposed to be a part of it?
?????? -
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Oh, man you are so demanding (not a bad thing, but exhausting)...!!! An album was created with a certain idea behind the artist's mind and the songs that are included in it were written for this purpose, too, in order to be a part of the idea, to serve it. The songs in a mixtape happened to be good and then were stacked together and became available to the fans, just because they were good. This is a mixtape for me, random original unreleased songs, stacked together. And they can't market, because they cannot enter the charts or sell (I am talking about the free mixtapes I know). It's like a gift to the fans by the artist. -
0bleak edited over 9 years ago
Fauni-Gena
It's a loosely defined term that will add confusion, as if we don't have enough of that already.
Seriously, no sale. Still a big -1 from me.
This. I think it's one of the most stupid . Most of these "mixtapes" aren't even mixed or on tape. And then you will have people adding it to DJ mixes and/or Various Artists releases that are on tape even though that's not what it's supposed to be used for because obviously Mixtape isn't supposed to be for mixes on tape, right?
Then you will also have people thinking, look, I can finally add all of those "mixtapes" (filled with tracks from different artists) I gave or received to/from potential love interests in the last few decades. -
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jweijde
Why is it called a tape then ?
maybe, just maybe because of the origins of the term?
jweijde
There are several sites defining the term mixtape as a cassette compilation containing mostly previously unreleased recordings. Are they wrong?
yes and no. a mixtape was a tape back in the early to mid 90s. However, the term mixtape has nothing at all to do with it being a "tape". It is essentially a marketing term, nothing else (same as album comes rom those book-like casings for the 78s)
PS: if something doesn't call itself "compi" and contains unreleased material, it's not a compilation on discogs -
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0bleak
This. I think it's one of the most stupid . Most of these "mixtapes" aren't even mixed or on tape. And then you will have people adding it to DJ mixes that are on tape even though that's not what it's supposed to be used for because obviously Mixtape isn't supposed to be for mixes on tape, right?
yes, and most "albums" aren't in books as the original albums were in the days of the 78rpm record, are they? So whats your argument again? -
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phallancz
I agree, it's mostly a marketing gimmick without a real definition.
I agree with this as well. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be added to the format list. There are plenty of other marketing there, so that shouldn't really be a problem.
0bleak
Most of these "mixtapes" aren't even mixed or on tape.
True, some of them aren't. Nor are they "DJ Mixes", but despite that, currently we have a lot of incorrect "Mixed" tags and "DJ Mix" credits on mixtapes, just because... Who knows? Because we don't have a Mixtape tag? Just a guess...
Actually adding "Mixtape" to the format list would make the submission process a lot easier, s could enter the format as d, and not have to guess what is the correct way to enter them.
Mixtapes are currently entered in so many ways, people editing them for personal preferences that I don't see how adding the tag could be a bad thing at all considering consistency.
Since the definition is so vague, the addition of the tag doesn't necessarily need to have an effect on sorting. It could be something to add in addition to "Album", "Compilation", "Mixed", "EP" or whatever. -
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syke
most "albums" aren't in books as the original albums were in the days of the 78rpm record,. are they
Because that stopped being relevant decades ago, however a large percentage of people will still think that mixtape is a mix on tape. -
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0bleak
Because that stopped being relevant decades ago, however a large percentage of people will still think that mixtape is a mix on tape.
that definition of a mixtape hasn't been relevant in two decades -
0bleak edited over 9 years ago
In fact, here's one my my recent favorites: https://www.discogs.sie.com/Various-20-Years-Of-Praxis/release/4567562 so you see that definition is still relevant. And there are quite a few digital DJ mixes that are called mixtapes by the DJ so the guideline about when to add the Mixtape tag is going to be very complex. -
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I think you'll just invite a lot of argument over what constitutes a "mixtape" if it's not specifically labelled as such. But so be it. -
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hatfulofelt
I think you'll just invite a lot of argument over what constitutes a "mixtape" if it's not specifically labelled as such. But so be it.
the same applies to album
0bleak
And there are quite a few digital DJ mixes that are called mixtapes by the DJ so the guideline about when to add the Mixtape tag is going to be very complex.
not really. It's essentially the same as with album. "if the release calls itself mixtape use the tag"
0bleak
In fact, here's one my my recent favorites: https://www.discogs.sie.com/Various-20-Years-Of-Praxis/release/4567562 so you see that definition is still relevant.
so what, a mix released on a tape? some albums still get released in books like 80 years ago. Doesn't change the fact that the term is not used in that capacity anymore in a broad sense
Also you'll notice that the artwork doesn't call it a mixtape and neither do the shops this offerend in:
http://signalflowpodcast.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/signal-flow-podcast-51-20-years-of.html
it should also be noted that many of the file releases in that MR probably need to be removed as there is no traceable source for them in the history as is mandatory -
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syke
the same applies to album
The same applies to almost anything other than actual physical size. Was just sayin'. -
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syke
some albums still get released in books like 80 years ago. Doesn't change the fact that the term is not used in that capacity anymore in a broad sense
Except the term for mixtape is still used in that capacity for DJ mixes in a broad sense.
syke
Also you'll notice that the artwork doesn't call it a mixtape and neither do the shops this offerend in:
http://signalflowpodcast.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/signal-flow-podcast-51-20-years-of.html
so what? You said the term isn't relevant anymore and I said that it still relevant by pointing out that those kinds of dj mixtapes releases are still being made (and are actually becoming more popular to be released as cassettes again) and even some mixes released digitally by DJs are being called mixtapes.
syke
it should also be noted that many of the file releases in that MR probably need to be removed as there is no traceable source for them in the history as is mandatory
Maybe you should take that up with the people who submitted them. -
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syke
"if the release calls itself mixtape use the tag"
so you're disagreeing with the suggestions put forward earlier and now saying just apply it to anything that calls itself a mixtape?
so we can or should ignore "Mixtape =/= DJ Mix"?
and ignore "a mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project."?
and ignore all those Wikipedia links? -
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0bleak
Except the term for mixtape is still used in that capacity for DJ mixes in a broad sense.
not as a marketing term like it is for mixtape releases, no.
0bleak
so what? You said the term isn't relevant anymore and I said that it still relevant by pointing out that those kinds of dj mixtapes releases are still being made (and are actually becoming more popular to be released as cassettes again) and even some mixes released digitally by DJs are being called mixtapes.
you pointed out a DJ mix on a tape. That does not equal the marketing and industry term mixtape. If the release calls itself a mixtape, there is no problem anyway, as it's marketing
0bleak
so you're disagreeing with the suggestions put forward earlier and now saying just apply it to anything that calls itself a mixtape?
the same standard as for albums should apply.
0bleak
and ignore "a mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project."?
yes. the same as we ignore tons of people calling any LP an album regardless of content. Just because people incorrectly use a term for something, does not mean we should too.
0bleak
and ignore all those Wikipedia links?
I couldn't care less about wikipedia -
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Hey, how about "Podcast"? -
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syke
not as a marketing term like it is for mixtape releases, no.
Er, yes it is.
Here's a question: Why are you still arguing that if you're now suggesting that we just add the tag to anything that is called a mixtape by an official source?
syke
That does not equal the marketing and industry term mixtape.
You can keep repeating that, but that does not make it true.
syke
If the release calls itself a mixtape, there is no problem anyway, as it's marketing.
Why weren't all of you asking for the mixtape tag saying that from the beginning then instead of arguing that DJ mixes aren't still considered to be mixtapes? Now it's just a marketing term but before it was suggested that "Mixtape =/= DJ Mix" and "mixtape is a collection of unreleased songs, excluded tracks from released or projects or newly composed stuff, that do not necessarily deal with similar lyrical themes or have a similar music style, therefore is just a collection of good songs and not a cosistent project. A compilation album is a collection of already released songs, greatest hits or remixes for example" -
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repost glitch -
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"The exact definition of a mixtape has grown and shifted over hip-hop’s several-decade history. They've come a long way from DJ-mixed compilations of hot tracks that complement radio and club play, over the years mutating into all-star line-ups of emcees spitting hot bars over familiar beats, then to a single crew spitting bars over familiar beats, then eventually to a single crew (or artist) spitting bars over unfamiliar beats. At that point, they became “street albums,” basically just full-length projects that didn’t go through standard record label vetting and distribution.
At this point, the aesthetic difference between a mixtape and an album is slight; in the last few years—ever since it became free and easy to distribute them online—mixtapes have grown into hour-long, fully original, single-artist projects often featuring A-list guest verses and expensive beats. But despite nearly identical levels of polish, what distinguishes a modern rap mixtape from a rap album is its goals."
http://noisey.vice.com/blog/the-real-difference-between-a-mixtape-and-an-album -
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Oh, look, here's a soundcloud page called Hiphop Mixtapes withover 6500 that reads "Hiphop Mixtapes (Strickly Dj mixes etc.!!)
Only Hiphop mixes! DJ Mixtapes and DJ sets!" so it seems that there are also many people in the hip hop community that still consider DJ mixes to be mixtapes. -
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again, what people believe a marketing term to be is utterly besides the point here. The same applies to the common misconception that any LP is an album (or that LP is a marketing term and not a physical format). What matters is the marketing aspect of the term. And in todays music scene the term does NOT equal tapes or DJ mixes or whatever. What matters is what the release is marketed as. and nothing else.
PS: Those soundcloud mixes are most likely not eligible anyways as unofficial file DJ mixes are not eligible for discogs
PPS: also guess what, many mixtapes are original music recorded specifically for said mixtape and still have a DJ added because it's part of the "culture". Doesn't change the fact that they aren't real DJ mixes and that they are marketed as such. -
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syke
And in todays music scene the term does NOT equal tapes or DJ mixes or whatever.
I just showed you that even in the hip-hop music scene that many people still consider DJ mixes to be mixtapes, and yet you still keep making that assertion.
syke
What matters is what the release is marketed as. and nothing else.
And again I ask you why you still keep insisting on a rigid definition that primarily applies to the hip hop world (and even then it's questionable as the only definition in the hip hop world as I have shown) if you also keep repeating that it's just a marketing term that can be applied to anything that calls itself a mixtape. -
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0bleak
I just showed you that even in the hip-hop music scene that many people still consider DJ mixes to be mixtapes, and yet you still keep making that assertion.
what you have shown is that some people refer to a DJ mix as a mixtape. this I have never disputed. However what you fail to grasp is that the industry is not doing that.
Essentially what you are saying is that we should apply the album tag to any LP because there are people saying so.
0bleak
And again I ask you why you still keep insisting on a rigid definition that primarily applies to the hip hop world (and even then it's questionable as the only definition in the hip hop world as I have shown) if you also keep repeating that it's just a marketing term that can be applied to anything that calls itself a mixtape.
because, as the article linked above clearly stated, it's mostly a synonym for an album these days, thus a marketing term we apply if the release calls itself that (or any official sources). Just like with albums. is that so hard to understand?
And you have shown nothing of the sort. you claimed that there is a soundcloud group (without any link I might add) that says DJ mixes are mixtapes. So what? You have not shown any official industry source or trustworthy publication claiming that, while I have done so for the marketing definition.
but lets use another definition for mixtape (from a "hiphop source"):
"Mixtapes- These have become underground albums today that are given away for free containing both original and unoriginal works. The soul purpose is to build a fan base not profit. Typically the artist is in complete control of this project so they decide the length, content, etc."
http://downlopaz.com/differences-between-singles-ep-lp-album-mixtape/ -
0bleak edited over 9 years ago
syke
what you have shown is that some people refer to a DJ mix as a mixtape. this I have never disputed.
You said that definition hasn't been relevant for two decades. That's not disputing it?
syke
However what you fail to grasp is that the industry is not doing that.
The "industry" is still doing that.
https://www.discogs.sie.com/Various-R-B-Mixtape/release/5684271
I can keep going...
syke
Essentially what you are saying is that we should apply the album tag to any LP because there are people saying so.
I never came close to essentially suggesting such a thing.
syke
because, as the article linked above clearly stated, it's mostly a synonym for an album these days[quote=syke]
The above article was referring only to hip hop culture.
[quote=syke]thus a marketing term we apply if the release calls itself that (or any official sources). Just like with albums. is that so hard to understand?.
It's not hard to understand except that it seems that you and others have been arguing all along for a narrow definition.
syke
And you have shown nothing of the sort.
Because I haven't been arguing for a narrow definition.
syke
while I have done so for the marketing definition.
Your marketing definition was once again a definition within hip hop culture.
syke
but lets use another definition for mixtape (from a "hiphop source")
And again I ask why you keep using these definitions if you are also saying that it's tag that can be applied to anything that is called a mixtape by an official source? -
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hmvh
Hey, how about "Podcast"?
No takers it seems, 'Live' however will get traction I'm sure. Good job we have a notes section for mixtapes that are 'underground albums' (or not). -
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+1 for the creation of the mixtape tag, but it must only be used by mention on the release itself or by an official source (label or whoever released it and the artist), no other sources. -
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hafler3o
No takers it seems
+1 for Podcast. Also make that automatically sort them to Miscellaneous. :P -
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0bleak
You said that definition hasn't been relevant for two decades. That's not disputing it?
No it's not, as you are unable to understand that I am talking about the industry as a whole, not about some people running a soundcloud group.
0bleak
I never came close to essentially suggesting such a thing.
sure you do. whenever you suggest that we take the gospel of some people over the industry definition, you are essentially saying that. Can't have it both ways.
0bleak
It's not hard to understand except that it seems that you and others have been arguing all along for a narrow definition.
what narrow definition? It's the exact same definition as for album. when the release is called a mixtape, it's a freaking mixtape. if it's not called a mixtape, it's not a freaking mixtape
0bleak
Because I haven't been arguing for a narrow definition.
now, you are arguing for no definition at all and you are arguing that such a tag should be applied based on a credit and the gospel of some people.
Lets end this here, you obviously have a problem understanding the concept as to when we on discogs add marketing tags like album, single or EP (and possibly mixtape)
phallancz
+1 for the creation of the mixtape tag, but it must only be used by mention on the release itself or by an official source (label or whoever released it and the artist), no other sources.
go away with your logic. If it doesn't say DJ mix and is not on a tape it's not a mixtape... -
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syke
phallancz
+1 for the creation of the mixtape tag, but it must only be used by mention on the release itself or by an official source (label or whoever released it and the artist), no other sources.
go away with your logic. If it doesn't say DJ mix and is not on a tape it's not a mixtape...
So please explain what is a mixtape and when can a release be tagged a Mixtape, if my logic is upsetting you or did you completely misunderstood what i said, kinda seems that there is no real definition of mixtape so why is my suggestion so un-logical? -
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phallancz
So please explain what is a mixtape and when can a release be tagged a Mixtape, if my logic is upsetting you or did you completely misunderstood what i said, kinda seems that there is no real definition of mixtape so why is my suggestion so un-logical?
my post was more in the reals of sarcasm as it's essentially the exact same thing I've been saying -
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syke
you are unable to understand that I am talking about the industry as a whole, not about some people running a soundcloud group.
And did you just ignore all of the links that show that the industry as a whole is also still using DJ mix as a definition?
syke
whenever you suggest that we take the gospel of some people over the industry definition, you are essentially saying that. Can't have it both ways..
Freakin' hilarious - I never remotely suggested that we take the gospel of some random people (in fact, I never suggested the use of the tag at all!) but you are wanting it both ways by continually just using only the modern hip hop culture definition and then also saying we use the tag if it's from a legit source. Now who is wanting it both ways?
syke
what narrow definition?.
The hip hop culture definition that you and others keep posting about, duh!
syke
It's the exact same definition as for album. when the release is called a mixtape, it's a freaking mixtape. if it's not called a mixtape, it's not a freaking mixtape.
Then say that and stop posting the modern hip hop culture definition along with it.
syke
you are arguing for no definition at all.
Again, incorrect. I've been arguing that the term exists outside of the narrow modern hip hop culture definition that you and others have been putting forward since the beginning of this thread because it looked like you all only wanted to use the tag within those narrow parameters.
syke
and you are arguing that such a tag should be applied based on a credit and the gospel of some people.
Again, incorrect. I haven't been arguing for the use of the tag.
syke
Lets end this here, you obviously have a problem understanding the concept as to when we on discogs add marketing tags like album, single or EP (and possibly mixtape).
I understand it perfectly well, The problem is that you don't understand how to argue for the tag when one hand you continually throw out the narrow modern hip hop culture definition and then on the other hand say we just use it like any other marketing tag. To quote yourself, you can't have it both ways. -
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glitch again! -
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glitch again! -
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0bleak what is exactly the problem you have with the creation of such tag?
The term is used by artists and labels, so why the term cannot be used as a tag?
If artists and labels use the term on their releases? why should discogs ignore it? -
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phallancz
+1 for the creation of the mixtape tag, but it must only be used by mention on the release itself or by an official source (label or whoever released it and the artist), no other sources.
auboisdormant
+1 for Podcast. Also make that automatically sort them to Miscellaneous. :P
YES AND YES -
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phallancz
wiredforsound what is exactly the problem you have with the creation of such tag??
In the beginning, my problem was that the tag was being narrowly defined by some people such as "Mixtape =/= DJ Mix" and saying that the DJ mix definition hasn't been relevant for two decades which is completely untrue.
If it's only going to be applied as a pure marketing term, then people should just say that from the start instead of continually going on about the narrow modern hip hop definition.
phallancz
The term is used by artists and labels, so why the term cannot be used as a tag?
If artists and labels use the term on their releases? why should discogs ignore it?
I'm not sure if the tag will serve any useful purpose because there are a lot of releases (also called mixtapes by official sources) besides modern hip hop culture related releases that are called mixtapes by official sources that are totally different kinds of mixtapes so what use is the tag if it's going to be applied to all sorts of different types of things? I think I even saw a live electronic music release (not dj mix) on here that is called a mixtape by the source. I think I've also seen a typical "various artists" "compilation" that's not a dj mix or hip hop related that's called a mixtape. -
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0bleak
In the beginning, my problem was that the tag was being narrowly defined by some people such as "Mixtape =/= DJ Mix" and saying that the DJ mix definition hasn't been relevant for two decades which is completely untrue.
I agree, i was against that definition also, but the term is very common and loose the same as the term album, if we have that there is no reason not to have Mixtape tag also, if it can only be used if mentioned on the release itself or by an official source.
We cannot escape it, the term is used and it's seems it's going to used for a long time, discogs is basically a music database, we catalog and archive things as they were released, if a term was used then we discogs should add it to and mark the releases as such.
0bleak
I'm not sure if the tag will serve any useful purpose because there are a lot of releases (also called mixtapes by official sources) besides modern hip hop culture related releases that are called mixtapes by official sources that are totally different kinds of mixtapes so what use is the tag if it's going to be applied to all sorts of different types of things?
I understand, the term used by Hip Hop artists is different from the Electronic (dance or experimental) artists, but discogs should catalog and archive releases with used, the usefulness is the same as the album tag (i agree not much), but isn't our aim to call things as they were called? isn't our job to record history and not try to define it? -
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+1 for "mixtape"
as others have noted, the release format is a distinct tradition within certain genres that can't easily fit under the umbrella of any combination of format options currently available for subs...it would be as valid and substantiable as any other marketing term which is given sanction as a checkbox format
the problem I could foresee would be s unfamiliar with the tradition seeing the checkbox and reading it as a green light to submit their homemade cassette mixes - that could get ugly -
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What would be the guideline for such a tag ? -
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StaticGuru
Mixtape is not a format in the slightest.
Agreed. MixTape is a too wide "definition" to serve any purpose.
The proper description would need Notes in all instances anyway, so No for me. -
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+1, mixtape is a well established industry term -
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jweijde
What would be the guideline for such a tag?
I guess it would fit to the Album / Single / EP guideline. -
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DonHergeFan
I guess it would fit to the Album / Single / EP guideline.
Absolutely. The same guideline for "single": marketing term used by the label or artist. And it certainly wouldn't be half as controversial as "single" has been. ;) -
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From the metalhead corner: If we're going to have "mixtape", we should have "demo" as well. -
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Stereolab42
From the metalhead corner: If we're going to have "mixtape", we should have "demo" as well.
They have nothing to do with each other
but here is the place for that request > https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/697729 -
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phallancz
They have nothing to do with each other
I understood the point - they're both release formats/marketing common enough that it would be handy to not have to enter them in freehand wherever they appear. "Demo" would probably have a much broader application than "Mixtape." -
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bumping this, so that this at least gets solved one way or the other -
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i haven't "read up on it", but wasn't Mixtape originally a DJ, bedroom or not, making a mix, maybe scratching &/or editing..., some already published, maybe & very nice if also with some unpublished, tracks, & putting the mix on a tape ? -
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ahlbomper
but wasn't Mixtape originally a DJ, bedroom or not, making a mix, maybe scratching &/or editing..., some already published, maybe & very nice if also with some unpublished, tracks, & putting the mix on a tape ?
yep, but the tag should only be used the same way as Album, EP, etc, so that we don't have s arguing what is a mixtape or not, the request is about creating a tag for releases that were/are called that by labels and artists. -
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phallancz
so that this at least gets solved one way or the other
Oh, as far as I am concerned we've got the likely result: no response, no change. Keep beating this dead horse all you like, though. -
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I just sent a request, so we are going to have a clear answer pretty soon. -
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zevulon
Agreed. MixTape is a too wide "definition" to serve any purpose.
The proper description would need Notes in all instances anyway, so No for me.
Same here.