Voter is not following the guidelines

Hello!

Please have a look at this:
https://www.discogs.sie.com/history?release=1225339#latest

It says clearly on the release that it was distributed in . Yet, the voter refuses to read or follow the guidelines. He claims it's a pure Italian release. How can it be that if it was distributed in ?

He votes "completely incorrect" on my submissions.

What shall I do?

File an SR, his voting is obviously incorrect and his attitude and comments (and what say guidelines smart guy?) are against guidelines

https://www.discogs.sie.com/

What is an SR and where do I find it? :)

An SR is a Request, Follow the link Avalon provided and your complaint will be sent directly to a staff member.

I have invited Chamleon to the discussion here as they are posting in the sub history.

totalDJ

label origin italy, anoher distribution by edel
is this choice italy & ? europe is no correct bout two countrys

As we know there is no option to list Italy & so the obvious choice is 'Europe'

and if you were to look at the profile of Edel Distribution GmbH you'd see
Edel Distribution is the largest independent music distributor in Europe with its own distribution system covering nine European countries.

so....pretty conclusively European distribution.

@ avalon67 : Distributed By – Edel Distribution GmbH then it is obviously a European release. => Obviously??? Distributed in means obviously country = Europe? No, i don't believe that. Distributed in means obviously country = .
This one is RELEASED in Italy, and also distributed in .

[quote=avalon67][/quote]
nine European countries

mentioned only

There's been plenty of discussions wrt this, consensus is Europe.

or maybe you can explain how to list Italy & ?

italy & listing not available, this option is may be created only by staff request

about consenzus, if here will 10 peoples with rank above 50 000 what say yes to Europe option, i will vote Europe

(we "s" obviously follow what is mentioned on release, mentioned Italy & distributed in by edel)
what is not mentioned on release is not leading to submitters (like 9 countries to distribute in profile)

and made in eu is not mentioned too on release

It's obviously Europe for the reasons mentioned. And demanding that people "with rank above 50 000" approve it, is really out of order.

Where it is made is really irrelevant.

[quote=avalon67]File an SR, his voting is obviously incorrect and his attitude and comments (and what say guidelines smart guy?) are against guidelines

Your arguments do not have any weight, without proofs, and are not competent

https://www.discogs.sie.com/Gary-Hughes-Precious-Ones/release/4652790 example with another dstribution

totalDJ
10 peoples with rank above 50 000 what say yes to Europe option, i will vote Europe

What, like 10 clueless rankhunters? You must be joking. The case is pretty clear, country is Europe.

totalDJ
Your arguments do not have any weight, without proofs, and are not competent

No, he's right. You are voting against guidelines and the release offers clear evidence. An SR needs to be filed.

https://www.discogs.sie.com/Gary-Hughes-Precious-Ones/release/4652790 example with another dstribution

Each release has its own data - but that looks very much like Europe too.

https://www.discogs.sie.com/Gary-Hughes-Precious-Ones/release/4652790 example with another dstribution

Clearly, country is wrong for this release. Definitely Europe.

https://www.discogs.sie.com/history?release=1225339#latest

As should the original release mentioned in this thread.

ok 6 s, 4 yet and i changed to country europe

totalDJ
This one is RELEASED in Italy, and also distributed in .

Means the market is not Italy only, so Italy is wrong! Don't fight windmills, the country is Europe (or just leave it open completely as it is not a required field).

Mop66
Italy is wrong!

RSG §7.1.1. […] For small labels, they will usually be based in, and release in, the same country.

I'd go with Italy.
The country(ies) of distribution can be mentioned in notes.

Mop66
Don't fight windmills

Meh, who cares about windmills.

I'm fighting the Mythical Discogs Market Of Release™ nonsense. :P

loukash
small labels

I wouldn't exactly call Frontiers Records a small label.

inexpressible
I wouldn't exactly call Frontiers Records a small label.

I was aware that this argument would inevitably come.
But nonetheless:
It doesn't appear to be an internationally acting multinational label either, does it?

I guess "small label" is open to interpretation. I'd still go with Europe instead of Italy.

inexpressible
I guess "small label" is open to interpretation.

Exactly.

A similar example:
From the sheer amount of releases, Munster Records doesn't appear to be a "small" label either (not to speak of its sublabels). Yet technically speaking it is: a small independend Spanish label exporting their releases to distributors worldwide. (Disclosure: I work for Munster externally.)

inexpressible
I'd still go with Europe instead of Italy.

Me too, Italian label with European distribution = Europe.

Opdiner
No, he's right. You are voting against guidelines and the release offers clear evidence. An SR needs to be filed.

andygrayrecords
Me too, Italian label with European distribution = Europe.

+1

loukash
Meh, who cares about windmills.
I'm fighting the Mythical Discogs Market Of Release™ nonsense. :P

You can do that, but until it is changed per your understanding (which it probably will not in the near future, if at all) your advise to use Italy is just loubbish™, sorry.

OK 8 : 2 for Europe, (Europe = two countries, Italy & mentioned on release)

shiremen you are almost winner :)

yes Europe as commented by several 2 000 0000 rank s already.

and Frans.goa14....hopefully you will look for something to vote correct -since you Ei voted a correct edit done by shiremen..?

loukash
Mop66
Italy is wrong!

RSG §7.1.1. […] For small labels, they will usually be based in, and release in, the same country.

I'd go with Italy.
The country(ies) of distribution can be mentioned in notes.

Hey loukash, Fastnacht is over :)

7.1.1. Larger labels or labels with licensing deals overseas are harder, but the country should always be the place the release was sold and distributed in.

Do we really have to define "always"?

If none of the regions in the Country drop-down matches, just leave the country field blank.

Ok, let's go back to what we know about this specific release:
* It was distributed in by Edel

According to the guidelines:
* "the country should always be the place the release was sold and distributed in"

So the country should be, or at least include, .

The guidelines says NOTHING about where the label comes from should determine what country we should choose.
But ok:
* "For small labels, they will usually be based in, and release in, the same country"

On the other hand:
* A US label can release licensed recordings in & Netherlands

So, we have no proof that this Italian label (Frontiers Records) sold this specific release in Italy. What we do know is that it was distributed in .

Therefore:
It is a German release (we have proof), but it may have been a
European release (as it seems logic that a quite small Italian label would sell a release within their own country. But we do dot have any proof of that yet.

Question:
Could it have been a German release only?

Can anyone give an example of a quite small label that did not sell or distribute in their own country?

shiremen
Can anyone give an example of a quite small label that did not sell or distribute in their own country?

No, but there was asimilar discussion here, https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/691752

Released on a Swedish label, with US distribution.
Crimson Moon - Under The Serpentine Spell

Europe or blank, with an explanation in the notes.

Country of manufacture does not take priority when the release is distributed in multiple markets.

ok i changed to blank, for not clearly consenzus about country, i apologize to shiremen for my voting,
you can see, this problem is deep, thanx to all in dscussion.

But i according guidlines. Not true what is in headling "Voter is not following the guidelines"

totalDJ
OK 8 : 2 for Europe, (Europe = two countries, Italy & mentioned on release)

shiremen you are almost winner :)

Make that 9 : 2

EU is to be used.

el_duro
Hey loukash, Fastnacht is over :)

You can't even imagine how glad I am about that. ;)

Mop66
but until it is changed per your understanding (which it probably will not in the near future, if at all)

No worries. I've stopped holding my breath many years ago.
That doesn't mean I'll ever stop bugging, however.

Diognes_The_Fox
Country of manufacture does not take priority when the release is distributed in multiple markets.

"Country of manufacture" ≠ country of label.
And why should country of distributor take priority of the country of label anyway?

Because if the distributor is mentioned, it is a proof. There is no proof that this release was sold in Italy

loukash
And why should country of distributor take priority of the country of label anyway?

I don't believe DTF is saying that: A record that I released in the UK with an EfA distribution code ie Fields Of The Nephilim - Burning The Fields E.P is listed as UK & Europe.

I've changed the sub in question https://www.discogs.sie.com/history?release=1225339#latest back to Europe, as per the consensus in this thread and

Diognes_The_Fox
Europe or blank, with an explanation in the notes.

I also vote for 'Europe' to be in the Country field.

I vote "Europe" too :-)

F104G
I vote "Europe" too :-)

Well if we're going there I vote for Europe too ;)

avalon67
Well if we're going there I vote for Europe too ;)

The Final Countdown :)

as a swiss, i always vote against europe :-)

If this is europe, why we does have as country: & Switzerland?
We do have:
UK & Europe
UK & French
UK & Ireland
etc.

I think the point here is, that we have to have Italy & . That's all

Chamleon
as a swiss, i always vote against europe :-)

As a Czech and a Swiss, I actually always vote for Europe.
Outside the puny Discogs Universe, that is. ;)

Chamleon
I think the point here is, that we have to have Italy & . That's all

Yep.

Also – as these are very common combinations – & and UK, & .

the SIAE mark is unambiguous, is clearly "Italy", questionable whether "may" also be released in

Chamleon
as a swiss, i always vote against europe :-)

If this is europe, why we does have as country: & Switzerland?
We do have:
UK & Europe
UK & French
UK & Ireland
etc.

I think the point here is, that we have to have Italy & . That's all

yes

FROCIANDRO
the SIAE mark is unambiguous, is clearly "Italy", questionable whether "may" also be released in

Rights society does not determine country, so not unambiguous at all,.

el_duro
avalon67Well if we're going there I vote for Europe too ;)

The Final Countdown :)

probably the final begining

FROCIANDRO
the SIAE mark is unambiguous, is clearly "Italy", questionable whether "may" also be released in

yes, right society is very important proof, determined country of origin, although disregarded in this cause

-- Europe --

totalDJ
right society is very important proof, determined country of origin

On Discogs the country is the intended market, NOT the country of origin.

Fauni-Gena
On Discogs the country is the intended market

That's the problem.
A tabloid horoscope is more factual than that.

Oh well, until it's changed, them's the rules we play by.

FROCIANDRO
the SIAE mark is unambiguous, is clearly "Italy", questionable whether "may" also be released in

totalDJ
yes, right society is very important proof, determined country of origin, although disregarded in this cause

ever heard of central licensing agreements?

intended market is very clearly Europe here

Europe and a request to add more country combinations

velove
Europe and a request to add more country combinations

looks ok, with this country combination Italy &

velove
a request to add more country combinations

We seem to have the main combinations:
GAS
Benelux
UK & Europe ( though that could be removed in favour of Europe)

The most pressing addition IMO is
& Belgium

Is Italy & really necessary? Is any release only going to be distributed there instead of Europe?

Maybe Spain & South America is needed?

loukash
As a Czech and a Swiss, I actually always vote for Europe.

Think that Czechs and Swiss always vote against Europe recently...

avalon67
Maybe Spain & South America is needed?

Europe & South Africa wouldn't go amiss ;)
Marshall Crenshaw - Field Day
There are other releases with similar distribution/marketing spiel that I can't quite think of atm

Norway & Sweden
Norway & Denmark
Denmark & Sweden
Sweden & Finland

all these would have been needed I'm sure. But Scandinavia seem to be the answer for these...even if really one of the above would be the correct: But hey....leave it.

NoidsAreUs
Think that Czechs and Swiss always vote against Europe recently...

I don't think anyone here will be shocked to learn that swimming against the flow is usually the most natural thing for me. :P

Gundozer
Sweden & Finland

Finland isn't even part of Scandinavia...

No...but these are the options we have..no "Norden" or Scandinavia & Europe and so on....

My point as you see (?) is ther are releases made to be released in only two of the countries...

We may add multiple credits for just about anything, but for countries there somehow is just one option.

Europe + explain the the situation in the notes, please.

loukash
[/quote]

xactly[quote=loukash]taklit-sarutOn Discogs the country is the intended market
That's the problem.
A tabloid horoscope is more factual than that.

agree

Discogs, would it not be possible to have tags for countries, same as we have tags for 'Limited Edition' 'Numbered' 'Album' etc... then we can tick boxes it applies to. Europe if all Europe. Luxembourg & Iceland, tick 2 boxes if it says that..... ????

That's a very good idea

+1

I'd rather see the Country removed altogether, it's not data.

FromLondon
tags for countries

Shameless plug:
https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/399854

hafler3o
I'd rather see the Country removed altogether, it's not data.

I'd prefer if we just tagged the country of manufacture and/or printing. Always useful info to help differentiate similar versions, and easy to prove. Intended market is so vague, especially these days where we buy off the internet and source items from all over the planet.

LolH
I'd prefer if we just tagged the country of manufacture and/or printing. Always useful info to help differentiate similar versions, and easy to prove.

Yes, and then have a better way to add rights societies, they are factual as well. With this information (and distributors etc., which is already there) the data would become factual instead of guesswork and all of the information used in the guessing process today would be there.

loukash
Shameless plug:

Great minds! ;)