Proposal: A few more BaOI types

I have a short list of potential new BaOI types that I'm presenting for peer review:

ISRC (International Standard Recording Code): http://www.discogs.sie.com/Deadbeat-Roots-And-Wire/release/1498207 / http://isrc.ifpi.org/en/

ISBN (International Standard Book Number): http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=ISBN&style_exact=Spoken+Word&type=release

Library Of Congress Catalog Number: http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=%22library+of+congress+catalog%22&type=all

Pressing Plant ID: http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=%22Pressing+Plant+ID%22&type=all

Your opinions, please! :)

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number):

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID

+1

Also excel21 has some Batch ID's numbers from brazil that would be interesting to add to the BaOI. (check his profile).

phallancz
Also excel21 has some Batch ID's numbers from brazil that would be interesting to add to the BaOI.

Yes! Those would be very helpful. Thanks.

^^^ definitely (Pressing Plant, ISBN)

LOC would be a decent candidate as well, especially since I believe these numbers will increase steadily in coming years.

I don't think Pressing Plant ID is common enough to be included in the BAOI. It seems that it's mostly used on Polygram releases. It also doesn't seem to have a single definition (e.g. can be interpreted several ways and is mainly 'our' invention)
Batch ID would be a better pick, since every Brazilian release these days has one (required by law).
ISRC, ISBN and LOC would be good additions too.

So "yes" to the first three and "No" to the last one.

I'd argue it's more widespread.

Atlantic, London and A&M also are heavy s of label/jacket visible pressing plant ID's.

SPARS code would also be nice to have.

the more the better, +++ for all proposals

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

Isn't the ISRC codes used to identify single tracks rather than whole releases? I'm thinking that it would be better to have this data assigned to single tracks rather than in the BaOI section. And maybe a field for Publisher assigned to tracks while you're at it ;-)

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

ISRC is a track identifier, not a release identifier. This should be firmly attached to each track, not to a release as a whole. I'd wait with this until there's a feature to add additional data (apart from credits) to tracks.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number)

Yay!
However, how to handle releases where the ISBN is at the same time the sole catalog# for a release?
Example: No Artist - Every Man's Korean Conversation

Diognes_The_Fox
Your opinions, please! :)

Remove ASIN!
Please!

loukash
Remove ASIN!

+1

ISRC and pressing plant id would be great.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number)

Would be more than welcome. There are several people who don't know the exact meaning and therefore write ISBN number …
It is also a valuable information to see whether release dates are correct.
10 digits = until 2005/2006
10 digit + 13 digits = 2005 until 2007 (used together in transition time)
13 digits = was officially introduced in 2007
It should also should be mentioned in RSG it is important to maintain the grouping of these numbers as every group has a specific meaning.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

+1 for tracks

Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number

Not seen that often but it won't hurt to have it.

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID

Never stumbled over this one … IDK not vital

anssisal
SPARS code would also be nice to have.

+1

All of these are quite/very uncommon, at least where I'm from. But SPARS Code, I don't understand why that isn't in the menu yet, but stuff like ASIN is.

loukash
Remove ASIN!

+1

loukash

Remove ASIN!
Please!

+1

All sound like good additions. Could an individual record catalog number field be added? If so, what exactly could it be named or would it cause too much confusion?

loukash
Remove ASIN!

+1
But in our dreams, it won't be removed, too late now...

anssisal
SPARS code would also be nice to have

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number)

For Bibliogs and Comicogs.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)
Library Of Congress Catalog Number
Pressing Plant ID

Quite obscure and unusual, but why not.

One suggestion :Distribution code

Gimme SPARS Code and Distribution Code and remove ASIN and I'm a happy camper

Diognes_The_Fox
I'd argue it's more widespread.

Also used on WEA Canada releases.

syke
Gimme SPARS Code and Distribution Code and remove ASIN and I'm a happy camper

To resume +1

valparaiso
One suggestion :Distribution code

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number: http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=%22library+of+congress+catalog%22&type=all

+1

For purposes of reconstructing the discography of Labels no longer in business, OCLC/WorldCat are very useful. The database is built by trained cataloggers, who for the most part do an outstanding job. There should be a Guideline/ Guide written to help s interpret the OCLC guideline approach vs Discogs philosophy (things like Discogs Artist is OCLC Author, etc.). Corrections/Changes to OCLC/WorldCat are painfully slow - perhaps the new LoC leadership will help that improve.

In approaching a defunct label like Longines Symphonette Society, WorldCat/OCLC has been very valuable indeed.

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID

I'd like this one, especially for tapes. There are tapes that I've been adding that appear to be exactly alike except for a printed "AR" or "SR" on the shell, indicating that they were made at either Specialty Records Corporation. On those I've added, this ID stands alone and is not part of a matrix number, so I've been adding it to the BaOI as "Other" with description (and also adding the company to LCCN, as well as a note to the release notes, since this identification is not immediately obvious).

The name "Pressing Plant ID" is probably just fine for tapes too, but I've been adding the company as "made by" instead of "pressed by", and just "Plant ID" for the BaOI description.

In addition to the other BaOI types mentioned by others already, I see frequently Depósito Legal, Price Code, and Price. I've added these to the BaOI, but they're not very common to releases I'm working with, so I'm not sure how widespread or useful they would be.

loukash about 12 hours ago

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

ISRC is a track identifier, not a release identifier. This should be firmly attached to each track, not to a release as a whole. I'd wait with this until there's a feature to add additional data (apart from credits) to tracks.

The code is printed on the rear cover of some SWR big band Cds (not for single tracks!).I had a request to staff to investigate it.
JCN

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code):

loukash
ISRC is a track identifier, not a release identifier. This should be firmly attached to each track, not to a release as a whole. I'd wait with this until there's a feature to add additional data (apart from credits) to tracks.

This is indeed very true!
It is impossible to add ISRC numbers to a complete release, unless that release has only one track.
I would even like to narrow this down a bit more: An ISRC-code is not even a track identifier as in 'track = title', it is a track-identifier as in 'track = recording'.... each different recording has a different IRSC-code, even when it's for example just an edit of another recording.

I, being a track releasing musician myself, have an ISRC-code attached to all my tracks.
How it works it actually quite simple.
For example, my latest single release:
RJ Rootz Feat. Elène Vaye - In 't Oosten
Apart from the released versions there are also some unreleased (instrumental) versions:
NL-F9C-15-00001 : In 't Oosten (dance mix)
NL-F9C-15-00002 : In 't Oosten (classical mix)
NL-F9C-15-00003 : In 't Oosten (Gelderland mix)
NL-F9C-15-00004 : In 't Oosten (sco remix)
NL-F9C-15-00005 : In 't Oosten (dance mix - instrumental)
NL-F9C-15-00006 : In 't Oosten (classical mix - instrumental)
NL-F9C-15-00007 : In 't Oosten (Gelderland mix - instrumental)
So each recording has its own code. Note that officially the 'ISRC'-part is NOT part of the code itself.
Each part of the code has a different meaning:
NL = country identifier, in my case NL for the Netherlands
F9C = artist identifier, in this case my own group 'RJ Rootz featuring Elène vaye'
15 = the year of the recording, in this case 2015
xxxxxx = the last part are five numbers, which is the track recording number in that year, so starting with 00001, then 00002, etc.

So taking the example that Deadbeat - Roots And Wire
ISRC CA-W29-08-00137/44
ISRC = ISRC notification
CA = country Canada
W29 = artist Deadbeat
08 = year 2008
00137/44 = track recording number 137 to 144 in the year 2008.
so although they printed 00137/44 for the complete release, it actually means that the 8 tracks present on this release have ISRC-code 000137, 000138, 000139, 000140, 000141, 000142, 000143 and 000144.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number):

Yes please

Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number:
Pressing Plant ID:

Never seen this, but it doesn't hurt I suppose

anssisal
SPARS code would also be nice to have.

Yes please

valparaiso
One suggestion :Distribution code

Yes please

syke
remove ASIN

JeroenG8
So taking the example that Diognes_The_Fox quoted in his first post:
Deadbeat - Roots And Wire
ISRC CA-W29-08-00137/44

Ah, I didn't notice "00137/44" part on that example.
Well, it seems that the record producers have compacted all ISRCs to one "code string". A "code" like this is certainly valid as a global BAOI string, but that would be a big exception to the rule. Stuff like that should remain quite rare. So noting it as "Other" should in fact suffice:
Other (ISRC codes, compacted): ISRC CA-W29-08-00137/44

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number

Does it actually ever appear on a release?
If not:
-1

valparaiso
Distribution code

+1

Igor_van_Dame
OCLC/WorldCat are very useful

Do they actually ever appear on a release?
If not:
-1

brandon_end
Depósito Legal, Price Code, and Price

+1 to all.

Price codes or straight retail prices were printed on 99.9 % of all Czechoslovak vinyl releases. Sometimes the release difference was that one version had a price code on labels (e.g. "H" for LP, Kčs 44,-) while another pressing had the retail price printed directly as "Kčs 44,-".

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number): http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=ISBN&style_exact=Spoken+Word&type=release

Yes, yes, yes! Long overdue.

valparaiso
One suggestion :Distribution code

+1

Another suggestion: Price Code

Bong
And maybe a field for Publisher assigned to tracks while you're at it ;-)

Similar to ISRC, I guess.
+1

Idea: Track-based credits (as we've been familiar with for years) but pointing to what is currently defined as "label" (publishers). It'll be a step towards the "entity" long-term approach.

Bong
I'm thinking that it would be better to have this data assigned to single tracks rather than in the BaOI section. And maybe a field for Publisher assigned to tracks while you're at it ;-)

Wouldn't it be possible to implement the possibility to add track numbers to the company field?
That way things would be solved immediately.
Just like we already have the same field in the global credit section.

loukash
Remove ASIN!

+1

One thing to note...there would definitely need to be a distinction between the Library of Congress Control Number (LCCN) and the Library of Congress Catalog Number.

loukash
Does it actually ever appear on a release?

Yup! Very frequently. Most heavily on books on tape / spoken stuff on Caedmon Records are heavy examples.

loukash
Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number
Does it actually ever appear on a release?
If not:
-1

Yes, for example on many US classical releases from the 1950s-1970s like Quartet In C-Sharp Minor, Op. 131

valparaiso
One suggestion :Distribution code

I don't know...
Isn't this a wording that has in fact been 'made up' by the Discogs community? Often I'm not so sure whether codes that are called "Distribution codes" on here have anything to do with distribution.

JeroenG8
It is impossible to add ISRC numbers to a complete release, unless that release has only one track.

I would argue here that Capitol (Early 90's, possibly 80's too, I think) for US releases assigned individual matrix numbers per track. I usually add these one at a time.

I don't see a problem listing them with track positions under descriptions.

JeroenG8
Wouldn't it be possible to implement the possibility to add track numbers to the company field?

I want it. But it's a little heavier in the development section. A new thread required!

tarantoga
Isn't this a wording that has in fact been 'made up' by the Discogs community? Often I'm not so sure whether codes that are called "Distribution codes" on here have anything to do with distribution.

I think that what is often entered as Distribution Codes is actually Price Codes.

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

ISBN (International Standard Book Number)

Library Of Congress Catalog Number

Pressing Plant ID

+1

Also +1 to Distribution Code, Price Code, SPARS Code, Depósito Legal

Little_Mountain
One thing to note...there would definitely need to be a distinction between the Library of Congress Control Number (LCCN) and the Library of Congress Catalog Number.

What is printed on the releases, is actually the control number, but what I've seen, it's always called a catalog number on the releases. The number has been called a couple of other things in the past. :)

loukash
Igor_van_Dame
OCLC/WorldCat are very useful

Do they actually ever appear on a release?
If not:
-1

I then would ask the question:
Is the purpose of Discogs to create a database recording the details of the market package annotation of all recorded media?

Or is the purpose to create a database containing a record of all recorded media published?

At least in the space I'm working (releases before 1978) credits are only 85% accurate (as in right person, correct spelling) and 20% of the releases cannot consistently use the same phrase for the release title between record label, album spine, front cover and liner notes inside a gatefold. The quality of the information is only a function of the editorial oversight of the Label management. More often than not the objective was to get the product out on time at lowest cost AND to catch the eye of the customer so they make the purchase. I liken it to every ebay LP posting starting with the words 'Rare Vintage ...', not factual, but snags the customer.

The issue for me is not just what is on the release, it is the cost/effort involved in discovering 'what is missing from Discogs' so I can be the most helpful in completing the monumental task. For that, external resources like WorldCat/OCLC/Amazon(ASIN)/ISRC/Wikipedia/Google/Billboard/Newspapers.com provide invaluable information *that should be noted 'easily' in the database* often more reliably than what is actually printed on the release.

One is about the purpose of Discogs, the other is about the process of achieving that purpose. Maybe BaOI is *not* the place for the info not on the physical release ... but a snappy pull-down/text-box located in a predictable place on the input screen would save the inconsistancy (not to mention forgetting) of adding things free-style in the Release Notes.

Just my .$02 as a relative newbie trying to get the job done.

i all yet suggested ones
(including ISBN, because books with CD's inside have ISBN)

what about:

DX
CTDX
CTDP
DIDC
DIDP
DIDX
DIDY
DIDZ

instead of

Other: DIDP 10137

?

syke
Gimme SPARS Code and Distribution Code and remove ASIN and I'm a happy camper

+1. Provided we are also given a definition of what a Distribution Code is in Discogs term and how one recognize it on a release.

I have never stumbled upon any of the 4 original suggestions (or at least, I have not taken notice) so they are less important for me.

typoman2
Never stumbled over this one … IDK not vital

AFAIK it's an American thing.
Exhibit A - note the "25" below stereo,
Exhibit B - "73" below stereo

loukash
Remove ASIN!

+1

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

No

Diognes_The_Fox
ISBN (International Standard Book Number)

Yes

Diognes_The_Fox
Library Of Congress Catalog Number

Yes

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID

Yes. But there needs to be a lot of discussing/deciding on what that would be appropriate....

syke
Gimme SPARS Code and Distribution Code and remove ASIN

Yes, yes and yes. Distribution Code/Price Code, would be more fitting actually.

+ those Brazilian "Batch IDs" (keyword: ABPD).

Igor_van_Dame
Is the purpose of Discogs to create a database recording the details of the market package annotation of all recorded media?
Or is the purpose to create a database containing a record of all recorded media published?

The answers:
http://www.discogs.sie.com/about
RSG §1.7.

Igor_van_Dame
The issue for me is not just what is on the release, it is the cost/effort involved in discovering 'what is missing from Discogs' so I can be the most helpful in completing the monumental task. For that, external resources like WorldCat/OCLC/Amazon(ASIN)/ISRC/Wikipedia/Google/Billboard/Newspapers.com provide invaluable information *that should be noted 'easily' in the database* often more reliably than what is actually printed on the release.

You can add any data important to you to your custom collection fields which you can set up via https://www.discogs.sie.com/settings/collection

Igor_van_Dame
Maybe BaOI is *not* the place for the info not on the physical release

Exactly.

That's also the reason for my desperate and widely echoed cry:

loukash
Remove ASIN!
Please!

Diognes_The_Fox
Pressing Plant ID:

Diognes_The_Fox
Atlantic, London and A&M also are heavy s of label/jacket visible pressing plant ID's.

Absolutely +1.

Fine, move the ASIN but please, don't remove information from the database. I still find it's useful.

auboisdormant
Also +1 to Distribution Code, Price Code, SPARS Code, Depósito Legal

+2

I don't think I can get ASIN removed as much as it blows.

hmvh
+ those Brazilian "Batch IDs" (keyword: ABPD).

is this something like

jweijde
CGC, short for "Cadastro Geral de Contribuinte", in Portuguese it reads General Taxpayer Registration

http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/398856#3697404

Diognes_The_Fox
I don't think I can get ASIN removed as much as it blows.

But perhaps you could at least remove the "licence to ASIN" for any physical release listed on Amazon.
As fas as I understand it, adding ASIN would be still valid when listing MP3 releases ed from Amazon because that's (sort of) "as on release".
I.e. a guideline update to restrict ASIN usage to digital releases from Amazon only.

OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
is this something like

jweijde
CGC, short for "Cadastro Geral de Contribuinte", in Portuguese it reads General Taxpayer Registration

Nope. It's something like http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/396654

Designated descriptors for additional catalog numbers, I.E.
- Sometimes individual discs in a multi-CD or multi-LP set will have their own numbers (RSG §4.7.6)
- What to do with references to previous catalog numbers?
- Manufacturing codes - earlier considered catalog numbers
If forum cannot agree how to enter these.

SPARS code
Distriburion code
Price code

+1

loukash
Remove ASIN!

Yes please. Make an automated conversion of already entered data to Other (ASIN).

blach
Yes please. Make an automated conversion of already entered data to Other (ASIN).

That would be a step back in my opinion, as would removing ASIN information.

Removing valid information is against the guidelines. As well, I, and others, find ASINs useful in checking prices and in validating releases. If some people don't like ASINs, why not just ignore them? If others have gone to the trouble of adding information, it is wrong to waste their time and efforts by removing that information now.

IMHO, there should be an external reference section for information like ASINs.

2tec
If some people don't like ASINs, why not just ignore them?

Because they are:
Not.
On.
Release.
Period.

Why don't we include e.g. iTunes IDs on releases which are in fact exclusive to iTunes?
U2 - Songs Of Innocence
https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/songs-of-innocence/id915794155

2tec
IMHO, there should be an external reference section for information like ASINs.

Fair enough.
You can use your https://www.discogs.sie.com/settings/collection and create a public note field.
Or you can use the review section although it might be slightly against the guidelines I guess.

loukash
Because they are:
Not.
On.
Release.

And they don't map to one specific discogs release. Amazon is not a valid place to validate a release. e.g. release dates from amazon cannot be used. And for prices, as different releases on discogs map to the same amazon ASIN you cannot really use the prices either.

As for removal of valid information. I think that often an ASIN is not valid as it does not map to a specific discogs release.

a automatic grouping & order (like it's with format tags) and some logic separators would be a huge benefit and would prevent the shuffling/reorder by s and all discussions about

like:

Barcode and Other Identifiers

Barcode (Printed): 0 123456 654321 [first / as on release]
Barcode (Scanned)
ISBN-10:
ISBN-13:

Label Code: LC 12345
Rights Society: JASRAC

SPARS code: AAD
Distribution Code:
Pressing Plant ID:

Depósito Legal:
Price Code:
Price:

and a separate section for the matrix and it's variants grouped
as suggested by Eviltoastman @ http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/392356?page=2#3838269

Variant 1
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 2
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 3
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

etc ...

velove
As for removal of valid information. I think that often an ASIN is not valid as it does not map to a specific discogs release.

This is not always true. I have been able to. ASINs may not always be one to one but they are at least one to many, which is a valid and useful relationship. As for prices, I find it's a good way to establish market value for newly added releases.

I see no reason we shouldn't have an external reference section for each release. Discogs should tie into sites like Amazon, All-music and iTunes, etc. if for nothing else, it would make Discogs more useful to more people. As well, these types of links are exactly what give such pages importance to search engines.

If you don't use it, fine, but leave it for others who do, please.

Should prefer
Barcode String or Scanned (only use scan when you actually scanned it, otherwise mention String), then Barcode (Text) (instead of printed)
Right Society and then Labelcode

That is most common as far as I've seen at ±5600 releases.

But to seperate the variant I'm in, but already for some time

2tec
Discogs should tie into sites like Amazon, All-music and iTunes, etc.

If they pay us for it, sure. :P

But until then, every reference to an Amazon & co. listing is a potentially lost sale for me.

Anyway, we've all been through these pro (few) & contra (many) ASIN arguments many times before. We shouldn't be hijacking this thread. I just initially thought it would be worth to mention it again. ;)

loukash
But until then, every reference to an Amazon & co. listing is a potentially lost sale for me.

Potentially, it could also be a sale for you. ;~)

OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
a automatic grouping & order (like it's with format tags) and some logic separators would be a huge benefit and would prevent the shuffling/reorder by s and all discussions about

like:

i agree, very fine +1

OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
a automatic grouping & order (like it's with format tags) and some logic separators would be a huge benefit and would prevent the shuffling/reorder by s and all discussions about

like:

Barcode and Other Identifiers

Barcode (Printed): 0 123456 654321 [first / as on release]
Barcode (Scanned)
ISBN-10:
ISBN-13:

Label Code: LC 12345
Rights Society: JASRAC

SPARS code: AAD
Distribution Code:
Pressing Plant ID:

Depósito Legal:
Price Code:
Price:

and a separate section for the matrix and it's variants grouped
as suggested by Quatroo66 & Eviltoastman @ http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/392356?page=2#3838269

Variant 1
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 2
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 3
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

etc ...

+1

Totally agree with 99% of what loukash and funkympls have suggested here.
I also think ASIN numbers are a irrelevant to physical releases on Discogs.

Of Diogenes proposals only ISBN is a widely used international standard not yet used on Discogs. The others are more esoteric, and ISRC numbers I only get with s I do through an agency that distributes via Amazon, iTunes, etc - and is not on the release I offer as such.

The most important improvements developers can add to Discogs though are not such trivial things.

I'd like to see:
ANVs on labels and companies.
An optional subtitle field for all release and track title entries.
Track numbering for LCCN fields

OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
a automatic grouping & order (like it's with format tags) and some logic separators would be a huge benefit and would prevent the shuffling/reorder by s and all discussions about like: (...)

+1

OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
a automatic grouping & order (like it's with format tags) and some logic separators would be a huge benefit and would prevent the shuffling/reorder by s and all discussions about

like:

Barcode and Other Identifiers

Barcode (Printed): 0 123456 654321 [first / as on release]
Barcode (Scanned)
ISBN-10:
ISBN-13:

Label Code: LC 12345
Rights Society: JASRAC

SPARS code: AAD
Distribution Code:
Pressing Plant ID:

Depósito Legal:
Price Code:
Price:

and a separate section for the matrix and it's variants grouped
as suggested by Quatroo66 & Eviltoastman @ http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/392356?page=2#3838269

Variant 1
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 2
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

Variant 3
Matrix
Mastering SID Code
Mould SID Code(s)

etc ...

looks good

loukash

ISRC (International Standard Recording Code)

ISRC is a track identifier, not a release identifier. This should be firmly attached to each track, not to a release as a whole. I'd wait with this until there's a feature to add additional data (apart from credits) to tracks.

Agree here.
Although, there are maaaaany many examples, when a publisher of one track on a release is added to the companies for the whole release. So this should also be considered..

phallancz
Diognes_The_FoxISBN (International Standard Book Number):

+1 This one is common enough on CD releases.

anssisal
SPARS code would also be nice to have.

+1 Also very common.

Bong
Isn't the ISRC codes used to identify single tracks rather than whole releases? I'm thinking that it would be better to have this data assigned to single tracks rather than in the BaOI section.

+1 This is one I wouldn't want to see added.

loukash
Remove ASIN!

-1 It is a valid identifier for Amazon file releases and Amazon CDr on demand releases. I say keep it but clarify the Guidelines to restrict it's usage to those two cases.

quote
"ISRC is a track identifier, not a release identifier. This should be firmly attached to each track, not to a release as a whole. I'd wait with this until there's a feature to add additional data (apart from credits) to tracks."

You should tell that to the companies.
Here are some examples where the ISRC code in a little box can be seen (rear cover or center label of CD)
Don Menza And The SWR Big Band* - Voyage

What do we sub? ----> just on release
JCN

jazzcornerneuwied
Here are some examples where the ISRC code in a little box can be seen (rear cover or center label of CD)

I see just the string "ISRC" in a box, but this string alone is not an ISRC. Whatever that's supposed to mean. Probably that the ISRCs are somehow encoded on the CD? Is it even possible within the Red Book specification? I don't know. But I can enter ISRC for each track in my audio CD authoring software and they are then exported with the DDP as part of the PQDESCR (subcodes) file. Whether these subcodes eventually end up in the glass master or just serve as a reference during the manfacturing process, no idea.

jazzcornerneuwied
What do we sub? ----> just on release

In this case I'd just go with a plain BAOI field:
Other: ISRC
If we don't know what it's all about we just list it as is, uncommented.

jazzcornerneuwied
Here are some examples where the ISRC code in a little box can be seen (rear cover or center label of CD)

As loukash correctly pointed out, these are not ISRC codes at all!
These are just the word 'ISRC' printed in a box.
An ISRC-code always looks like, for example:

JeroenG8
NL-F9C-15-00001

If it's not such type of code, it's not an ISRC code.
As already explained above the code is built up as follows:

JeroenG8
So each recording has its own code. Note that officially the 'ISRC'-part is NOT part of the code itself.
Each part of the code has a different meaning:
NL = country identifier, in my case NL for the Netherlands
F9C = artist identifier, in this case my own group 'RJ Rootz featuring Elène vaye'
15 = the year of the recording, in this case 2015
xxxxxx = the last part are five numbers, which is the track recording number in that year, so starting with 00001, then 00002, etc.

And sometimes combined codes are printed release-wide, for example:

JeroenG8
So taking the example that Diognes_The_Fox quoted in his first post:
Deadbeat - Roots And Wire
ISRC CA-W29-08-00137/44
ISRC = ISRC notification
CA = country Canada
W29 = artist Deadbeat
08 = year 2008
00137/44 = track recording number 137 to 144 in the year 2008.
so although they printed 00137/44 for the complete release, it actually means that the 8 tracks present on this release have ISRC-code 000137, 000138, 000139, 000140, 000141, 000142, 000143 and 000144.

loukash
In this case I'd just go with a plain BAOI field:
Other: ISRC
If we don't know what it's all about we just list it as is, uncommented.

Possibly it just means that all or part of the tracks on the release have an ISRC-code added to them....?

As a note by: Most of the s do not add the available LCCN or BAOI fields, although the information is readyly available on the release. There are also s who limit their submissions to the absolute minimums required by the RSG. We can't even count on the majority of s to add images/scans. I fear that the additions to the BAOI will only be used by "hardcore" Discogs s, unless they would be required as part of the submission. Therefore, while I the idea, I am critical about the practicality.

Subs can be made more complex by anyone.

Also as a heads up, I have a pretty skeletal crew here for DB help, so I won't be able to make any headway where at least until the week after next. Please keep up the discussion though.

loukash
In this case I'd just go with a plain BAOI field:
Other: ISRC
If we don't know what it's all about we just list it as is, uncommented.

Well ok for me.
The question simply was what does it mean for a sub? Neglect it or list it.

anssisal
SPARS code would also be nice to have.

+1

Bump!

We have:

Diognes_The_Fox
ISRC (International Standard Recording Code): http://www.discogs.sie.com/Deadbeat-Roots-And-Wire/release/1498207 / http://isrc.ifpi.org/en/

ISBN (International Standard Book Number): http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=ISBN&style_exact=Spoken+Word&type=release

Library Of Congress Catalog Number: http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=%22library+of+congress+catalog%22&type=all

Pressing Plant ID: http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?q=%22Pressing+Plant+ID%22&type=all

Plus

blach

SPARS code
Distriburion code
Price code

and

Batch ID

Sound reasonable? Did I miss any?

Diognes_The_Fox
Sound reasonable? Did I miss any?

Depósito Legal :)

Catalog Number (RSG §4.7.6)

Bong
And maybe a field for Publisher assigned to tracks while you're at it ;-)

+1

excel21
Depósito Legal :)

+1. It's on almost every release from Spain.

Diognes_The_Fox
Sound reasonable?

Sounds absolutely brilliant. Of course, I now have a ton of submissions that need changes/updates. Oh well. That's the price of progress.

The only thing which bugs me a bit is this …
Now (preferred way of display): Other (Distribution code F) WE 171
New: Distribution code (F) WE 171
or even uglier: Distribution code (F:) WE 171
Well … progress, seldom pretty … or we stop saying that the country isn't part of the code …
Distribution code F: WE 171

I also would prefer to have ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 otherwise we start again with this description field …

typoman2
or we stop saying that the country isn't part of the code …
Distribution code F: WE 171

+1 for this.
Sometimes there is a space between country letter and :. sometimes not. Only if we add it including the country can this be easily shown.

automatic grouping & order

would be a huge benefit (received a few +1)
http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/693089?page=1#6917432

_

strummin
Catalog Number

+1 (for multiple discs in the same package)

+1 for cat# in BaoI (& all suggestion summed up above).

Another proposal, maybe add 'UK purchase tax code'?

Diognes_The_Fox
Price code

I'm not sure if the solution would be having both "price code" and "price", or an explicit combination of the 2 into 1 type, or just an understanding/guideline that prices would be acceptable to enter as a "price code", but I'd really like to see price included.

I'm sure that there are places where I encounter releases with price codes that I'm not recognizing, but I much more frequently see actual prices. For releases on Dischord Records, all older releases (and probably current ones) have a mailorder (ppd) price. Some releases have multiple issues where this price is the most significant feature that differentiates them. The profile info even directs s to enter this information, but into the release notes, where it won't necessarily be easily located for comparison. Also, pretty much every Japanese release I've seen has a price. There are surely many other countries and labels that consistently include prices. When entered, the price should, of course, include the currency. Another benefit in adding this to the BaOI could be that this information helps add unknown release dates, correct impossible ones, and identify represses and reissues.

brandon_end
I'm not sure if the solution would be having both "price code" and "price", or an explicit combination of the 2 into 1 type, or just an understanding/guideline that prices would be acceptable to enter as a "price code", but I'd really like to see price included.

Agreed.

typoman2
we stop saying that the country isn't part of the code …
Distribution code F: WE 171

+1...as mentioned in another thread the country letter is a code in itself, not a description and destroying the unity of the sequence of the country code, the er and rest of the code only requires us to add the full sequence again in the notes to be sure there is no way to mix it up with very similar versions like "F: WE 171", "F:WE 171" or "F - WE 171" or whatever you might be able to think of.

Diognes_The_Fox
Distriburion code

Yeah...fine with me but I would still name it "Distribution Code" tbh XD

I've got some concern about those "Distribution codes"
are they really distribution and not "Price codes"?

for example here Underworld - Beaucoup Fish as we can see on the back cover clearly says French Price Code: CB 811
http://cdn.discogs.sie.com/XY8DSMfeymWi5QxDCGQn7zxf2lg=/fit-in/600x471/filters:strip_icc%28%29:format%28jpeg%29:mode_rgb%28%29:quality%2896%29/discogs-images/R-4878244-1379520756-3471.jpeg.jpg

but in Discogs World it would be called "French distribution code"

Those darn "Distribution Codes". What is a "Distribution Code" anyway?

I agree with julass. Most so called "Distribution Codes" are probably Price Codes like the Underworld example shows.

A Google search for "cb 811" gives 1040 hits on the discogs.sie.com domain. A search for "cb 811" and "distribution code" gives 735 hits. A search for "cb 811" and "price code" gives 58 hits. I think that puts a spotlight on a terminology problem that we have.

I personally would like to see CMTA and SPCN codes ( http://reference.discogslabs.com/wiki/CMTA-genre-codes-and-SPCN-codes ) added, but I doubt there'd be much interest from others.

Diognes_The_Fox
I don't think I can get ASIN removed as much as it blows.

It can differentiate releases. It serves a very handy purpose in that respect. Some abuse it and use it when the release is not an amazon release (made to order or a ), but that is the fault of Discogs, not the identifier. If people used it properly which would be helped if Discogs helped people use it properly then there'd be little fuss. Sadly it can be added to anything. ASIN doesn't blow, Discogs' laissez-faire attitude towards its use does.

Calls to drop it are shortsighted and unreasonable.

Bong
I agree with julass. Most so called "Distribution Codes" are probably Price Codes like the Underworld example shows.

Indeed. I recently came to the same conclusion when reading up on the history on French price fixing. The "distribution code" is a myth of our own making adn they're use was to set French prices to stop overcharging AND to fix the refund price of returns from the retailer.

Eviltoastman
It can differentiate releases.

Examples please!

julass
I've got some concern about those "Distribution codes"
are they really distribution and not "Price codes"?

Eviltoastman
The "distribution code" is a myth of our own making

It's quite likely that a lot of "distribution codes" are in fact "price codes"...
We could sidestep the debate altogether and just use a hybrid... Price/Distribution Code

aasaxell
We could sidestep the debate altogether and just use a hybrid... Price/Distribution Code

I agree.

loukash
Examples please!

B00UBYJ1QE - Amazon.co.uk version of Faith No More's "Superhero". VBR file.
B00UA544JS - Amazon.fr version of Faith No More's "Superhero". 320kbps.
US has its own for the single and it is encoded differently too with different lame settings. As each aspect of Amazon encodes for its own market, no two files from a given region tend to be the same with subtle differences. They have strict ASINS (in some cases, they are contained within an "album" containing the single track which has it;s own ASIN, meaning in real a single file will have two ASINS for that territory for the same thing - but this is the UK file system and not a genuine issue - see Faith No More - Motherfucker for an example of a territoty hiding a file inside a folder and giving an ASIN for both).

So, it;s an identifier and for thse who lack experience with software which can display the encoding tags and methods in play it can help differentiate releases. The Superhero case above is a typical Amazon example. It becomes less useful for their CDr portfolio but it;s still an identifier and an important one for those releases as they belong solely to those releases. As before my proposal is that ASINs are reserved 100% for file releases from Amazon and CDr releases from Amazon.

Eviltoastman
As before my proposal is that ASINs are reserved 100% for file releases from Amazon and CDr releases from Amazon.

I'd imagine nobody would object to ASINs if they were only used for these two cases.

Eviltoastman
B00UBYJ1QE - Amazon.co.uk version of Faith No More's "Superhero". VBR file.
B00UA544JS - Amazon.fr version of Faith No More's "Superhero". 320kbps.

Alright, so we're talking about files.
As already noted, that's alright by me.

But the guidelines must explicitly prohibit adding ASIN to physical releases non-exclusively sold via Amazon.

Diognes_The_Fox
I don't think I can get ASIN removed as much as it blows.

loukash
But the guidelines must explicitly prohibit adding ASIN to physical releases non-exclusively sold via Amazon.

Diognes_The_Fox Can you get the guidelines changed to the above?

loukash
But the guidelines must explicitly prohibit adding ASIN to physical releases non-exclusively sold via Amazon.

Absolutely.

velove
Diognes_The_Fox Can you get the guidelines changed to the above?

+1