I am new on here so apologies if this idea already exists or is a waste of time!
There are lots of questions asked here about submitting which aren't covered precisely in the guidelines. These seem to involve a lot of discussion (some of it quite heated which amuses me) but quite often leads to a consensus. As a quick example I am thinking of the right way to add Variants/Versions in BAOI. However you can have a number of different threads which give different answers.
My point is I find it very difficult to keep track of these as well as referring to the guidelines as I'm new. Would it be possible to set up some dummy subs with the data populated in them to illustrate exactly what has been decided in THE LATEST thread. These could be then updated as and when a new consensus is reached and labeled with a tag.
I would also find it useful as we all have different learning styles. I sometimes reach the bottom of a thread and I still can't grasp the right way to do the issue in point. Whereas if I see a sub which is correct it 'clicks' with me if that makes any sense.
Something like this has been suggested by someone before (I forget who) but I understand that the preference is for a newbie to hook up with an experienced who can walk them through any problems.
Try http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/52151a3d9469733cfcfbb383 .
Thanks for the advice I'm actually a member of that group. My point is even the advice you are getting from your mentor (no matter how well intentioned) might not reflect the latest consensus from the latest thread because THEY are not even aware of it.
The_Beatles.
Would it be possible to set up some dummy subs with the data populated in them to illustrate exactly what has been decided in THE LATEST thread. These could be then updated as and when a new consensus is reached and labeled with a tag.
Interesting idea!
There's certainly no issue with creating drafts as examples and not submitting them and linking those in a forum thread.
That or using a real submissions with those changes as examples in them.
I'd be happy to sticky that thread if it gets made / people think it's a good idea.
Thanks for the interest Diognes_The_Fox. I have spent some time going through threads regarding submitting and it's clear that quite often even the most experienced submitters are not aware of a particular thread relating to an issue they have. A lot of time seems to be spent with arguments until someone chips in with a particular thread which relates to the issue at hand and everyone says 'oh I forgot about that' or 'I wasn't aware of that thread'. There must be a better way! I understand that the guidelines can't cover every eventuality, hence the threads, but please find a way of organising links to them in some way or tying them into 'real subs' so thickoes like me have half a chance of getting it right ;-)
The_Beatles.
I have spent some time going through threads regarding submitting and it's clear that quite often even the most experienced submitters are not aware of a particular thread relating to an issue they have.
Yep, and when a statement is made by management, the guidelines are often not updated to reflect this. A lot of statements you have to search through the forums for, which is mostly fruitless due to the less that useful forum search engine.
It has been proposed many times by s to have at least more detailed examples of how to submit, and also about having some sort of dummy releases with different types of format for example. When I was a new , I had asked for this. But never taken seriously. Visual examples work a lot better than loads of text, especially for non-native English speakers.
I don't see why this would need to take up a lot of management's time: add a row of dummy examples, and update those whenever there are changes in the way info is submitted. It would help new s a whole lot, and also give the other s who spend most of their time cleaning up newbie's releases some respite. This is a win win win situation, for management as well as they are likely to get less SRs dealing with these issues.
The majority of s on this site are not native English speakers imo. We have s from just about everywhere, and I know there would be more from other countries if it was made easier for them to contribute.
Right there are other s on here with a 1000 times more experience than me. How does one gain traction with this if it's been suggested before to no avail. Surely it would take minutes for the dummy subs to be created?
How would you make them searchable? Tag them with keywords such as 'variant' or 'version' or would you tag them with the relevant RSG code? After making a few subs I have held off for a while to get a better feeling for the site and the guidelines but am keen to crack on.
I think some experienced s forget how much is contained in the guidelines because they have had the chance to absorb the changes over a period of time and I presume don't have to consult them very often. http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/540c88a34c5e2e45e69c899b
And let's not forget my original post concerns threads not the guidelines themselves so apologies for going slightly off topic myself.
The_Beatles.
How does one gain traction with this if it's been suggested before to no avail. Surely it would take minutes for the dummy subs to be created?
It is not that simple, but even if it did take time to do, I think (and so do many others) that management should spend more time on things like this that directly help s. They keep asking us how we can make it easier for s, we keep giving them simple solutions like this (I think I even asked for this when I first came on the site), but nothing happens.
, the less experienced that just don't get it cause a lot more extra work for those that do, having to clean up after them. And this is time others would rather spend contributing their stuff. Some of us spend 90% of our time here cleaning up other's stuff. It gets on people's nerves, which causes arguments and all kinds of other problems which could have been avoided frankly.
And it gets so tedious having to explain the same basic things over and over and over again. Linking an example of how to save a lot of typing for others.
Incorrect format & track numbering, please see how to: (add link here).
Ah right so you would just drop that in on the sub history. Yes I think I can see how that would work. It might also help to remove the problem of the original submitter getting their back up because they think your advice is just your opinion rather than a consensus and the latest one at that.
I invite management to 'sit down' so to speak with a group of active oggers that know what they are doing and that deal with newbies a lot of the time: to see what are the problem areas, and to discuss how best to improve the way the info is conveyed. Oggers who have been through it all themselves and had to wade through thread after thread and sub after sub to figure things it out, who know how difficult it to manoeuvre your way through it all to get at what you need to know.
You can have all kinds of links on a submission form, not much help if s cannot understand them. Even doing some simple youtube tutorials would be a great help. And official ones, there are a few done by oggers, some pretty dismal, so ones done or sanctioned by management would be better.
What about a separate sticky by management to add any statement made by them in a thread? Keep the sticky as a kind of reminder of what still needs updating or elaborating in the guidelines. This would be a lot simpler than to have to search the forums. A sticky on Format, a sticky on capitalization, etc. the things that come up regularly and involve management decisions. Sticky the statement's links in the stickies. Don't think this would take too much effort on the part of management? You state something in thread X, and directly add the link in the sticky that would cover that.
And as a side bar Amsreddevil who it appears to me is obviously experienced on here has threads saved on his profile page which I presume is a reminder to him of certain things. (If this is wrong I will of course edit this post) If experienced s are doing this surely there is no better sign that the current system needs a tweak.
Amsreddevil
I invite management to 'sit down' so to speak with a group of active oggers that know what they are doing and that deal with newbies a lot of the time: to see what are the problem areas, and to discuss how best to improve the way the info is conveyed. Oggers who have been through it all themselves and had to wade through thread after thread and sub after sub to figure things it out, who know how difficult it to manoeuvre your way through it all to get at what you need to know.
You can have all kinds of links on a submission form, not much help if s cannot understand them. Even doing some simple youtube tutorials would be a great help. And official ones, there are a few done by oggers, some pretty dismal, so ones done or sanctioned by management would be better.
What about a separate sticky by management to add any statement made by them in a thread? Keep the sticky as a kind of reminder of what still needs updating or elaborating in the guidelines. This would be a lot simpler than to have to search the forums. A sticky on Format, a sticky on capitalization, etc. the things that come up regularly and involve management decisions. Sticky the statement's links in the stickies. Don't think this would take too much effort on the part of management? You state something in thread X, and directly add the link in the sticky that would cover that.
This is pretty much a good chunk of my new job/responsibilities, so, I guess I'm your guy for that.
Precisely and no offense it would be easy for you to miss a thread. Holiday, jury service illness whatever. Bet other s do the same. Hell I bet different s have different threads on their profile pages about the same subject with different outcomes which is exactly my point.
Thanks for the from Diognes_The_Fox I have no hidden agenda here. I am not a seller just someone who has been collecting music for 40 years plus and just came on here thinking it was a quick way to catalogue it. What did I know ;-)
The_Beatles.
just came on here thinking it was a quick way to catalogue it. What did I know ;-)
It used to be a lot simpler when you could not add companies, when there were a lot less possibilities to add info. A lot has changed since then, a lot more complicated, anything to help s understand this better will make it easier for all and more likely others will continue on the site once they started contributing. Latest forum thread statement updates sticky to refer to would be a big step already.
I really can't say it again and again. Î am a new with a lot to add to the database. Nothing special there for sure but you have old and new submitters both saying the same thing!
jackholexxxx
f a decision/ruling is made in the forums, and we are to be bound by these decisions, the guidelines should be updated.
But we all know that hardly ever happens, that is why a sticky having statements would be useful until such time this info is added to / elaborated on in the guidelines.
My idea is that I have a very barebones draft which can be edited and submitted with an example, and then linked to via the edit revert link in the submission history, which will load the example in question in the submission form for examination. This was an infinite number of examples can be loaded from a single submission and are retained permanently.
I feel a forum thread should be community autonomous to encom all important decisions. We're here to encourage and assist in a community driven database, but ultimately many decisions are made without staff involvement every day.
So, basically, how it works is that an edit gets made with the example and submitted. From there, copy the most recent revert link and increment the number after ?rev= by 1 to have the link load the example just created.
To be honest I would have to see it in use to make sense with me. I'm not experienced enough with the site or it's workings to judge from what you've posted above. I'm having a 'thick' day not unusual for me :-) I appreciate your efforts though.
