Common runout groove etchings: how to list them (Version 5) - defunct

This thread has been carried over to https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/743281

http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/Customatrix
http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/RCA+Studios%2C+Toronto

^^runout info from the profiles of these companies should be added to the list...

◎-∈-◎ on Canadian releases (most likely a pressing plant.) Ex: Free - Heartbreaker
was very likely the insignia for the The Compo Company Ltd.) pressing plant in Cornwall, Ontario, which was in operation from 1964 to 1976. (Cornwall had the very same 0.984375" diameter pressing ring as U.S. pressings from MCA's Pinckneyville and Gloversville plants; in addition, Cornwall pressings had a collection of Varityper fonts, at least one of which [a variation of the serif Memphis typeface] appears to have been used only by that plant.)

bumping:
http://s23.postimg.org/8zyq7i02z/bbb.png , any idea?

From Fields Of The Nephilim - Earth Inferno

UK release, i don't think it's Arnie Acosta.

Kergillian
http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/RCA+Studios%2C+Toronto

Has been added: "TG", "GT", "TXG", "TXD" "TD"

Kergillian
http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/Customatrix

I couldn't find an example that presents the typical "signature", do you have one?

W.B.
was very likely the insignia for the MCA Records (Canada)

How certain is that? The example uses ◎⚊⋲⚊◎ (straight line through centre circle (⊖ ?) is one long line touching both outer circles, the ends of the 'C' are almost touching the dissecting line).

Customatrix' "signature" would've been a small stamped "o" that looks almost scripted, and positioned usually to the left of matrix numbers in the deadwax (notably between c.1963 and 1968-9). It is represented in B&OI sections either by an º or °.

But the MCA (Canada) Cornwall insignia should have read as ◎-C-◎ (even though in practice the line went right through the C); in any case, it would've first appeared the same time as Gloversville's ▣-G-▣ and Pinckneyville's ◈-P-◈ - in early 1973. What's more, I have some Cornwall pressings of 45's (mostly, 1966-69 Capitol and Apple Beatles singles, and a 1971 Plastic Ono Band single on Apple), and the label fonts are definitely from MCA (Canada) Cornwall. This was one of three plants Capitol of Canada used up to the opening of its own Mississauga, Ontario pressing plant (designated in this database as RCA Records Pressing Plant, Smiths Falls, Ontario and, from 1973 to 1975-6, Columbia Records' Don Mills, Ontario plant).

hi there --
in the CAPITOL Records Section, near the top of the page, "I A M [in triangle]" is the matrix given as a leader to the Capitol Pressing Plant, Scranton
but records pressed prior to FEB 1963 and later than NOV 1973, the symbol used was a Lathe/Anvil type stamp
I needed help to locate this earlier this year, now I know, but perhaps the anvil symbol can more obvious to locate for future reference, thank you for your dedication to quality data..:)

With reference to this post:
http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/324904?page=40#52996928aba9e84f2c9c7b4a

I just want to there's enough evidence for the "triangle with a dot" to be added to the list and for me to add Keel Mfg. Corp. to releases with this stamp in the runouts. (I have no intention to do a mass edit but I'd like to update a few albums in my collection.)

BTW it is in the "unknown" list above as "Horizontal triangle pointing right with dot inside". And also btw -- I have seen the triangle point left on at least one occasion, so the description probably shouldn't contain the "pointing right" bit.

Thanks.

sebfact
I couldn't find an example that presents the typical "signature", do you have one?

There's an image attached to the label page - for runout description, try http://www.discogs.sie.com/Beatles-Yellow-Submarine/release/1886295

why is there two of these:

DcBφs or DcBqs (could be mistaken for: DeBos, DeB?s, DeRcs, DeRos)
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Mastered at Better Quality Sound
Add a credit: Mastered By - David Cheppa
Location Link: none
Example: Matt Johnson (2) - E-Normous Johnson EP

DcBφs
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Mastered at Better Quality Sound
Add a credit: Mastered By - Dave Crawford (2)
Example: A-Lines, The - One Day

I'm pretty sure the latter is wrong: Dave Crawford (2)
says "Known to have worked at Masterdisk"

anssisal
why is there two of these:

good question

re: http://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/52151abb9469733cfcfbed50?page=41#529e47c9aba9e804bfa5be31

mossinterest
You had it correct originally. It's a T over a V and a C next to it. I asked about a year ago here and Hoffman forum with no luck - nobody seems to know anything about it. I have it on several Motown and other pressings. It's not exclusive to Motown.

Ok, thanks :)

HI,

I found an etching in this release: Hoodoo Gurus - Stoneage Romeos

It's an American pressing, released by A&M Mastering Studios. The etchings appears on both A & B side: A1 C–. A1 is stamped and C– is hand-etched.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

New here...just starting to submit.

In my "Description" for the runout, I have just put "Side A", etc. - should I be typing "Side A (stamped)" or similar?

Juanfraner
I found an etching in this release: Hoodoo Gurus - Stoneage Romeos

It's an American pressing, released by A&M Records and mastered at A&M Mastering Studios. The etchings appears on both A & B side: A1 C–. A1 is stamped and C– is hand-etched.

The 'R' on the label to the left of the A&M logo at bottom indicates that this was a pressing by RCA Records Pressing Plant, Indianapolis. They often had stamped 'A1's' (usually signifying mother, or mold, numbers) in their deadwax. (Plus 1" diameter pressing rings.) Especially since I see 'RCA' was within the deadwax matrix numbers.

W.B.
The 'R' on the label to the left of the A&M logo at bottom indicates that this was a pressing by RCA Records Pressing Plant, Indianapolis. They often had stamped 'A1's' (usually signifying mother, or mold, numbers) in their deadwax. (Plus 1" diameter pressing rings.) Especially since I see 'RCA' was within the deadwax matrix numbers.

Thanks!

chileboy
In my "Description" for the runout, I have just put "Side A", etc. - should I be typing "Side A (stamped)" or similar?

I have very finite guidelines for the descriptions of matrix/runout numbers for the B&OI section. For entries where the matrix numbers and plant initial(s) are both stamped, I put in: "A side deadwax - stamped"; if they are all hand-etched, I put in: "A side deadwax - scribed"; and for a combination of both, in the part where the matrix numbers are filled, I indicate in parentheses which is stamped and which is scribed, and put into the description "A side deadwax." Others have different wordings, so all this may vary from person to person.

But on another plane, as far as mastering credits go, what looks on some lacquers like a hand-etched 'Lp' is actually an interlocking 'dh', and indicates . . .
Mastered By - Don Holden*
Example: Marvin Gaye - What's Going On
* . . . who, like Randy Kling, had once worked at RCA Studios, Chicago.

Hi W.B. helped me with the mold identification.
p.s. congratulations on V5!!

Hi, I need help to identify a "Therefore" symbol [three dots forming a triangle] See Ian Hunter - Ian Hunter. Image available with sub. Thanks.

Customatrix and MCA (Canada) Cornwall added. Thanks for the explanations!

d-of
Lathe/Anvil type stamp

Has been changed before go-live, if that is still wrong, please advise.

anssisal
why is there two of these:

Adjusted/removed. Thanks for the hint.

haiyai2u
You can remove " ƧT" from the unknown list.

Moved to Master List. Not sure about the T for Terre Haute though.

mr.dna
to add Hauppauge Record Manufacturing Ltd. or Keel Mfg. Corp. to releases with this stamp

How do you tell if it was Hauppage or Keel?

U-41144M is etched into Veronica (10) - 24 Hours, I think I've seen the pattern before.

Is there a list to identify pressing plants?

blind_squirrel
U-41144M

looks like a United Record Pressing number for 7".

The "T" is entered in the Columbia Records Pressing Plant, Terre Haute and in the Columbia section of this V5. regards

sebfact
Moved to Master List. Not sure about the T for Terre Haute though.

haiyai2u
three dots forming a triangle

Only have seen that on UK CBS pressings but that's most likely out of question here.

thanks sebfact and everyone involved, I see now the headder for the Capitol/Scranton has been lengthened to include both sybols used,
good work !!

Some unfinished business from 4.0 :)

brooklynphono + P Gold
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Mastered at Brooklyn Phono
Add a credit: Mastered By Paul Gold
Location Link: http://brooklynphono.com/
Example: Grizzly Bear - Yellow House

AudioMatrix (Image: http://s.pixogs.com/image/L-288546-1367180432-7883.jpeg )
S, H or HS? S
Add a company: Mastered at Audio Matrix, Inc.
Example: The Crystals - Da Doo Ron Ron (When He Walked Me Home)

(credit to haiyai2u for the AudioMatrix image)

Another leftover from V4 (and V2...)
I was hoping that the UK pressing plant with PA#### etchings would have been identified by now.
#### is a four digit sequence/job number. The earliest I have found is PA2581 in 1987 and the latest Pa 9933 from 1997. Later releases usually have the 'a' in lower case. Hand etched. I don't know what happened when they reached 9999, I've searched but there's too few releases that have etchings entered :-/
The mastering studios are varied. Often Porky's but also The Exchange, JTS and more.

Here are a bunch of examples:
Dancing Room

Another example for the Frankford/Wayne section . . .
F/W ∆M (sometimes written on this database as "AM")
Mastered At - Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs
Mastered By - Dave Moyssiadis
Example: The Three Degrees - When Will I See You Again

Bong
Another leftover from V4 (and V2...)

Yeah, unresolved..... yet.

W.B.
F/W ∆M

Added, thanks.

aasaxell
Some unfinished business from 4.0 :)

Added, thanks to both of you.

sebfact
How do you tell if it was Hauppage or Keel?

I know I've read that Keel was pre-1979 and it became Hauppauge in 1979 but now I can't find the source. Can anyone else confirm this?

there are some records in DB with ZTSC in runout.
http://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html says it's a Columbia Pressing Plant in Chigaco.
Can i create Columbia Pressing Plant, Chicago ?
and add it to the records witch has ZTSC in Runout?

PeacefulPlace
there are some records in DB with ZTSC in runout.
http://www.anorakscorner.com/PressingPlantInfo.html says it's a Columbia Pressing Plant in Chigaco.
Can i create Columbia Pressing Plant, Chicago ?
and add it to the records witch has ZTSC in Runout?

First up, Columbia never had a pressing plant in Chicago; but rather, that city was home to one of their key recording studios. Second, ZTSC was a matrix prefix for custom jobs mastered in Chicago. The designation for records with ZTSC numbers would thus be:
Mastered At - Columbia Recording Studios, Chicago

ok... thanks for that!

there are also some with ZTSC in Cat#
does this indicates also: Mastered At - Columbia Recording Studios, Chicago ?

PeacefulPlace
there are also some with ZTSC in Cat#
does this indicates also: Mastered At - Columbia Recording Studios, Chicago ?

That usually indicates there was no catalogue number on releases with those ZTSC numbers.

Found an ambiguity:
We have in the thread under "delta":
ΔM F/W
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Frankford/Wayne Mastering Labs
Add a credit: Mastered By - Alan Moy
Location Link: none
Example: Calhoon - Soul Man

and we have in the F/W section
F/W ∆M or F/W AM
Mastered At - Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs
Mastered By - Dave Moyssiadis
Example: Three Degrees, The - When Will I See You Again / Year Of Decision

Both correct?

sebfact
Found an ambiguity:
We have in the thread under "delta":
ΔM F/W
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Frankford/Wayne Mastering Labs
Add a credit: Mastered By - Alan Moy
Location Link: none
Example: Calhoon - Soul Man

and we have in the F/W section
F/W ∆M or F/W AM
Mastered At - Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs
Mastered By - Dave Moyssiadis
Example: Three Degrees, The - When Will I See You Again / Year Of Decision

Sorry, folks - I saw the Calhoon record, said recorded in Philly, therefore F/W ∆M = Mastered At - Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs / Mastered By - Dave Moyssiadis (the "delta" symbol began with the same letter as Mr. Moyssiadis' first name).
I've noticed quite a few cases of pre-1974 45's where contributors put in "Frankford/Wayne Mastering Labs" when it should have been "Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs" (F/W didn't open their New York mastering studios until 1974). Especially on records actually recorded in Philadelphia.

OK; then we need two ΔM in the DB
One for ΔM in combination with F/W = F/W Recording Labs, Philly and Dave Moyssiadis, see http://www.discogs.sie.com/search/?format=Vinyl&track=&barcode=%CE%94M+F%2FW&genre=&anv=&catno=&year=&contributor=&style=&title=&country=US&artist=&label=&credit=&submitter=&type=release - which would be ΔM (2),
and the other one is just ΔM (no F/W), as, apparently, Alan Moy was at Masterdisk only.

Anyone ever saw this etching here?
https://dl.dropboxcontent.com/u/1506450/discogs/wu-etch.jpg

Looks like a W with an additional horizontal stroke across the "peak" in the middle.

Found here:
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Wu-Tang-Clan-Enter-The-Wu-Tang-36-Chambers/release/1935801

pano9000
Anyone ever saw this etching here?
https://dl.dropboxcontent.com/u/1506450/discogs/wu-etch.jpg

Looks like a W with an additional horizontal stroke across the "peak" in the middle.

Found here:
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Wu-Tang-Clan-Enter-The-Wu-Tang-36-Chambers/release/1935801

Can be found on alot of Record Industry pressings.

f.e. http://www.discogs.sie.com/DJ-Linus-Flokati/release/184771
http://www.discogs.sie.com/System-F-Spaceman/release/146405

Similar ones are -PS- and TYN

-PS-
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Bobby-Burns-Charlie-Parker/release/230657
http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/Club+Culture+Club+Vinyl+Classics (W and PS)
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Motorcycle-As-The-Rush-Comes/release/186359
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Rewinders-Pacific-Dance/release/110346

I once emailed R.I. about this, but they couldn't confirm if these were signatures of the engineers.
(see history on TYN profile: http://www.discogs.sie.com/history?artist=TYN#latest )

Etching found on some Italian pressings

SENGN or 4ENGN or GENGN or...

http://imgur.com/a/dOLlZ

http://www.discogs.sie.com/MPG-Gulls/release/1685204
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Dohr-Mangold-Sunrise-530-AM/release/1418373
http://www.discogs.sie.com/Gianluca-Motta-Feat-Molly-Not-Alone-Part-2/release/1270387

Anyone got a clue?

http://www.discogs.sie.com/release/565055

TX in the runouts - could that be another indication of being mastered or cut at RCA Toronto?

Also, any clue what COCO in the runouts could be?

yvesscheers
Etching found on some Italian pressings

SENGN or 4ENGN or GENGN or...

It's actually Gengy.
He's the mastering engineer at Gengy

chn74
It's actually Gengy.
He's the mastering engineer at Elettroformati, here's the profile: Gengy

Yes, thank you!

Another one:
EDOB from the unknown list could be Edo B).

Most likely Italian
I have the initials on these releases:
Padre

Apparently he's on soundcloud. Maybe someone with an could drop him a message?

I added this info and link to this page in Profile.

W.B.
First up, Columbia never had a pressing plant in Chicago; but rather, that city was home to one of their key recording studios. Second, ZTSC was a matrix prefix for custom jobs mastered in Chicago. The designation for records with ZTSC numbers would thus be:
Mastered At - Columbia Recording Studios, Chicago

Forgive me if I asked this one before (but I don't think I have)...

Who at Sterling Sound would have etched this in the mid-'80s?
http://www.discogs.sie.com/viewimages?release=3312608

Doesn't look like a Tom Coyne to me.

yvesscheers
Apparently he's on soundcloud. Maybe someone with an could drop him a message?

Sent him a message on soundcloud.

hello, I am just finishing up with this sub The Best Of The Jazz Crusaders
it is 1982 on label: Pausa Records
the runouts have stamped: MASTERED BY LIBERTY
but honestly I am not sure who to link to as 'mastered by' , surely not Liberty>? ty for your time :)

d-of
hello, I am just finishing up with this sub The Jazz Crusaders* - The Best Of The Jazz Crusaders
it is 1982 on label: Pausa Records
the runouts have stamped: MASTERED BY LIBERTY
but honestly I am not sure who to link to as 'mastered by' , surely not Liberty>? ty for your time :)

For early 1980's records such as this -
Mastered At - Liberty Recording Studios
I've always found something odd about these lacquers, as they used the same code - 'P' - as used on mono lacquers (alternated with 'T') issued in the '60's and early '70's that were mastered at Capitol Studios, New York City - but this is a whole 'nother animal entirely.

thanks W.B. for your quick response, I made the link.
re: matrix [A side]: PR-1-9005-P-1ⓧ PRC-C1-1-1 -A-
I thought the 'P' was maybe referring to the Pausa records it was released on?
p.s. and perhaps, if its not already in the list, Liberty Recording Studios can be added under L for Liberty or M for mastered by Liberty..g'nite+take care :)

pano9000
Looks like a W with an additional horizontal stroke across the "peak" in the middle.

Added to Unknown with examples

yvesscheers
SENGN or 4ENGN or GENGN or...

Added variations to Gengy

yvesscheers
EDOB from the unknown list could be Edo "Lozio" B. (see also Edo B).

Moved from Unknown list to Master list.

d-of
MASTERED BY LIBERTY

Added to Master list

Regarding Polygram's asg of 3-digit numbers to each country for vinyl mastering/pressing: I suspect 830 belongs to Singapore, see Lipps, Inc. - Mouth To Mouth.

brunorepublic
830 belongs to Singapore

Indeed. See PRS profile. The name of the plant was Phonographic Industries Ltd. (P.I.L. Factory), located 701E Commonwealth Drive. It was established by Phonogram in 1967.

EDOB was not identified. It was just a suggestion who he could be and someone said then they try to this Edo B guy to see if it's his marking. But no confirmations for this has been posted here.

triv
But no confirmations for this has been posted here.

haven't heard back from him yet. And no idea if I ever will. but in case I do hear back, I'll post an update.

Here's one that isn't on the list yet:

MCRP
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Pressed By Midwest Custom Record Pressing
Location Link: none
Example: The Defoliants - Hang Ten

W.B., back here you mentioned that Keel Mfg. became Hauppauge Record Mfg.

Can you the date of the change?

Thanks.

hi, I have a release here: Golden Hits
its liner says it is recorded at FINE RECORDING STUDIOS: http://www.discogs.sie.com/label/Fine+Recording+Studios
there is an etched `F`in the runout
I am submitting another release: Songs I Love To Sing also engineered George Piros, also with etched `F` , liner only says `recorded monoarally - stereophonically in a new york recording studio with G.Piros.....
is it safe to àssume this is Fine Recordind Studios ?
and if this is true, the Fine profile could mention an etched `F`as an indicator, thanks for yer help, much appreciated

For experts on US pressings:

My copy of The Eyes Of The Beacon Street Union http://www.discogs.sie.com/release/1455044 has a runout with the catalog number, then MGS followed by another number. This seems to be consistant with other MGM releases.

Might MGS be an engineer's signature or pressing plant? Or simply a catag system used by MGM? - many thanks

willyrobinson
Might MGS be an engineer's signature or pressing plant? O

I've already dealt with MGM some 8 months ago, see here.
From what I know, MGS is a format identifier for LPs.
I wonder if W.B. has more info, as he seems to be the expert for US pressing plants.

d-of
FINE RECORDING STUDIOS

This site states: ”Fine Recording Inc. (h.f. FRI) was a production complex that eventually encomed four studios, extensive disk-mastering operations, and Walter Sear’s Moog laboratory. FRI was located in the Great Northern Hotel on 57th Street in Manhattan." So, I guess the "F" is their identifier.
Edit: For the list: is this just an F or indeed 'F', or "F" ? And where exactly is it located in the matrix?

willyrobinson
My copy of Beacon Street Union - The Eyes Of The Beacon Street Union has a runout with the catalog number, then MGS followed by another number. This seems to be consistant with other MGM releases.

'MGS' was a stereo prefix for LP matrix numbers used by MGM during the 1966-73 period ('MG' was for mono releases).

Oh . . . and a continuation of this post (speaking of MGM), after Feb 1970, the 100,000 matrix series (which designated recordings made in New York, and also used on foreign recordings such as Herman's Hermits') was rearranged so that the last three digits therein were preceded by a '70 NY' marker (i.e. 70 NY 661). The 'N 50,000' matrix series (changed after 1970 to '70 N 5x,xxx') signified recordings made in Nashville, and 'L' of course was Los Angeles. After 1973 or '74, all matrix numbers (whether L, N or NY) were consolidated into the L.A. matrix system.

mr.dna
W.B., back here you mentioned that Keel Mfg. became Hauppauge Record Mfg.

Can you the date of the change?

The name change would've come after Keel's parent, Pickwick International, filed for bankruptcy in 1979 in the wake of the massive sales slump that engulfed the entire industry (with PolyGram acquiring their assets as it stood at that point). It would appear that the plant soon thereafter changed ownership hands, thus the change to HRM. Pressings by that plant, whether as Keel or HRM, were signified by a '53' code on pressings of not only PolyGram sublabels, but also K-Tel LP's.

sebfact
is this just an F or indeed 'F', or "F" ? And where exactly is it located in the matrix?

on both the Brook benton Lps: Golden Hits the F is an etched F about 3 or 4 mm [an eigth of an inch or so] tall, easy to spot with the naked eye, capital styled font, squared corners much like this: F. Only the F with no quotes attached.
on both releases all the other text is stamped, well apart from the F. one is all the way round, say 30 minutes, other 15 minutes.
also one release both sides F faces in to the label, on the other release both F face out, have a good day out there :)

W.B.
Oh . . . and a continuation of this post (speaking of MGM)

Thanks! You made my (MGM) day. I was always wondering about the letters' meanings.

W.B.
The name change would've come after Keel's parent, Pickwick International, filed for bankruptcy in 1979

Keel was still in use by 1980 - see here, which wasn't released before November 1980, so I assume the transition took place in early 1981.

That's very likely. So then there's our answer as to the transition from Keel to HRM.

MCRP and F added to master list.
"Horizontal triangle with dot" moved from unknown list to master list and assigned to HRM. If the triangle also appears pre-1981, please let me know, to assign to Keel as well.
Edit: typo

Hi all,
2 questions regarding UK releases:
On release Some Bizzare Album the PRS code "...▽EMC..." translates into "laquer cut at CTS Studios ". As the runout on side B has etched "- DE LANE LEA -", was there a role for that studio in the process? It is not amongst the list of credited recording studios on that rel.

Alos, I seem to recall a past mentioning of (ALI), just found him here Chocolate Soup For Diabetics, but neither on the confirmed nor unknown lists.
Thanks

The "F-1" here, any clues as to confirm it's meaning, a mastering thing I'm guessing (at least I think it it being so anyway):
http://www.discogs.sie.com/release/564215

cheers.

[[ The mothaf***in' saga continues: Common runout groove etchings v.5 ]]

'F' was in reference to the particular mastering room out of which that lacquer was cut, and was descended from a series of codes used by Capitol Mastering in Hollywood. The Neumann lathe used by the likes of Wally Traugott and Ken Perry, which bore the 'F' code, had been in service since fall 1969, and replaced a Scully lathe which was part of a master/slave setup (F / G) whose last lacquers were cut in spring 1969. Another Neumann lathe at Capitol Mastering, in place since 1975, cut the lacquers with 'G' codes from that point; the late Gene Thompson cut many lacquers from that latter lathe. (This apparently replaced another master/slave setup, again all Scullys, with alternating A / B codes, whose last known lacquers with those letters within the deadwax were cut about 1974.)

ok then, cool thanks WB

New one for the list:
AJB
S, H or HS? Hand-Etched
Add a company: Mastered at Cauliflower Audio
Add a credit: Mastered By Adam Boose
Location Link: http://caulifloweraudio.com/
Example: Owel - Owel

Adam was taught cutting by Well Made Music (as in the Owel example above).

sebfact
"Horizontal triangle with dot" moved from unknown list to master list and assigned to HRM. If the triangle also appears pre-1981, please let me know,

1979: Corea* / Hancock* - An Evening With Chick Corea And Herbie Hancock
Triangle/dot in runout and "53" on labels...
So does that mean that this is Keel and not HRM?

SneakyPeteRecs
- DE LANE LEA -", was there a role for that studio in the process?

CTS Studios Ltd. and De Lane Lea Music Ltd. merged in 1972 and subsequently, CTS relocated to De Lane Lea's location at The Music Centre near the Wembley arena in late 1972. This was a marriage of a film score studio and a recording/mastering studio which never was without difficulties. Each of the merged folk kept their "origins" for quite a while, so I guess that's why. In the end, however, De Lane Lea is the same as CTS.

aasaxell
So does that mean that this is Keel and not HRM?

Yes, in 1979 Keel was still operating. I will amend the list. Thanks for the example.

forthale
AJB

Will be added, too. Thanks mate!

sebfact and W.B. - many thanks for your help on MGM, sorry I wasn't up to date on the previous discussion - w

SneakyPeteRecs
mentioning of (ALI)

There are many lacquer cutting engineers or studios along with it (Porky, Bilbo, TY, Ta1pe, etc.). Often also featured are plants, such as Lyntone or Damont. So, my best guess is that ALI was a metalworking engineer (at Lyntone?). This seems possible because there often are Stamper numbers found as well, such as S-1, S3, S-12, etc.
I'll add it to the unknown list with examples.

A new addition (that can be removed from the unknown list)!

LP (on Swedish vinyl) sometimes followed by a 6-digit date [yymmdd]
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Pressed by Ljudpress
Example: Björn Afzelius - Riddarna Kring Runda Bordet

So, since I've figured out one of the "unknowns" I thought I'd replace it with a new one :P

See: Various - KAKC Solid Gold

Masterer's (presumably) signature in runouts: Binks (underlined)
http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-5053079-1387060186-7207.jpeg

(FWIW, there's the aforementioned "T over VC" etch on this as well...)

Any clues?

Got a Runout with WMMIC5, i think i doesn't belong to:

"WMM/CJIII
Add a company: Mastered at Well Made Music"

anyone may help?

aasaxell
Masterer's (presumably) signature in runouts: Binks (underlined)

Binks could be a F/W engineer. I believe though that he has worked in Philly at Frankford/Wayne Recording Labs.
There are more with Binks as well.
Will add it to the Unknown list and remove LP.

PeacefulPlace
WMM/CJIII

Shot an email to Clint, the owner.

Edit: Also moved from Unknown list to Master list:
Ayre for Sylvester Ayre. The CUTM remains a mystery but it only appears once so far.

any idea what pressing plant might be here?
Romansoff - Raw Tools 2
all it has is a stamped number -29259-
thanks

glass
stamped number -29259-

seems to be a Pallas number.

kraftberg
seems to be a Pallas number.

thank you very much, it seems so indeed
cheers

sebfact
♢G*
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Mastered At - Pye Studios
Add a credit: Mastered By ♢G
Location Link: none
Example: Brotherhood Of Man - Angelo
*Alias for Gordon Vicary

I just added this credit, and was informed that I was creating a new artist....Should I have used Gordon Vicary?

*edit, added link
http://www.discogs.sie.com/artist/%E2%99%A2G

PeacefulPlace
WMMIC5

Clint Holley of WMM replied: "I do not use that inscription and my cutting partner uses WMM and adds AJB in the runout."
However, looking at your sub, it's Australian anyway. Could this be from the former Festival/Mushroom pressing plant, now potentially operating as Warner Music Manufacturing?

andygrayrecords
I just added this credit, and was informed that I was creating a new artist....Should I have used Gordon Vicary?

♢G used to be an Alias but was then moved to an ANV, which was heavily contested (especially by me). This then lead to a discussion started by nik in March. Unfortunately though, this issue is still in discussion (see Interpreting run out information 4. Identifying problem areas). Until a final resolution is found, we have decided to not change any of the profiles and this thread.
For the time being, you may add it as an ANV of Gordon Vicary...
Edit: typos

Ok, thx Seb...will change it, see what happens in the future. I agree with you btw, it's an alias not anv.

sebfact
PeacefulPlaceWMMIC5
Clint Holley of WMM replied: "I do not use that inscription and my cutting partner uses WMM and adds AJB in the runout."
However, looking at your sub, it's Australian anyway. Could this be from the former Festival/Mushroom pressing plant, now potentially operating as Warner Music Manufacturing?

thanks for your work!

Quoted from the prior thread of this subject . . .

swagski
I can't seem to find a label there with a '60' on it. Any pic refs you could point me to?
(BTW - I'm referring to the printed numbers found on labels. i.e.
25 = Columbia, Santa Maria, CA
56 = Columbia, Pitman, NJ
73 = Columbia, Terre Haute, IN
76 = Hub-Servall Record Mfg. Corp. ...etc
60 - ????

'60' would have been seen on 1979-80 pressings from Sound Makers. One place to look is this page (the first two label scans on the page, as of this time). Records with this number would have had 'SMK' written within the deadwax.

aasaxell
1979: Corea* / Hancock* - An Evening With Chick Corea And Herbie Hancock
Triangle/dot in runout and "53" on labels...
So does that mean that this is Keel and not HRM?

Uh, can it be confirmed that that is a 1979 pressing aasaxell ?

djindio
Uh, can it be confirmed that that is a 1979 pressing aasaxell ?

*shrug* I can't prove it... there are no identifiers AFAICS that would indicate a repress/reissue though.

There are 2 US versions in the DB...
Mine and this one:
Corea* / Hancock* - An Evening With Chick Corea And Herbie Hancock
which has a "25" on the labels indicating Columbia Records Pressing Plant, Santa Maria
No runout info on that on unfortunately... hard to tell if they were pressed/released at the same time or one after the other...

Edit:
Runouts from my copy:
Matrix / Runout (Etched Side A): C-1 PD-2-6238 AS-K-3
Matrix / Runout (Etched Side B): A-1 PD-2-6238 BS-K
Matrix / Runout (Etched Side C): A-2 PD-2-6238 CS-K
Matrix / Runout (Etched Side D): A-1 PD-2-6238 DS-K
Matrix / Runout (Stamped Side A/B/C/D): [Dot in a triangle]

Haven't thought about it before but could the "K" suffix on the matrices stand for Keel?

Edit2:

Giorgio Moroder - American Gigolo - Original Soundtrack
Looks like K = Keel !

And also from V4:

ksdfjsldfj
Hi there, Here again with this Monty (6) - Rêves D'Enfant EP and can someone helping me with the "T" in the runout?

Barclay used several pressing plants, such as Pathé-Marconi, and S.F.P. Dimoplast. Usually, MPO, DFI and Pathé are easy to spot due to their matrix signatures (MPO or Δ / ⩓ / DFI or M3/M6/M9 resp.). From SFP I have never seen etchings.

Corea* / Hancock* - An Evening With Chick Corea And Herbie Hancock
which has a "25" on the labels indicating Columbia Records Pressing Plant, Santa Maria
No runout info on that on unfortunately... hard to tell if they were pressed/released at the same time or one after the other...

Both pressings would have been simultaneous to one another, as PolyGram used a slew of plants to handle their product at the time. But on that Santa Maria pressing, doubtless there would have been a "-CS-#" notation in the deadwax. But though by then all three Columbia plants used the same phototypesetting label fonts from Mergenthaler Linotype's VIP library as first used in Pitman starting in mid-1974, and the layout seen on the labels are exactly as one would have seen on Pitman ('56') pressings, besides the '25' on the label the other factor is the grooved pattern between the outer area of the label and the 2.703125" diameter pressing ring.

sebfact ok then nothing to do... Thanks

W.B.
'60' would have been seen on 1979-80 pressings from Sound Makers. One place to look is this page (the first two label scans on the page, as of this time). Records with this number would have had 'SMK' written within the deadwax.

Thanks W.B.
...I reckon you've got a ouija board and are in with the likes of Ahmet Ertegun (and FZ of course)
Have a good festive season    ;)

Here's a "new" Swedish pressing plant for the list

SGI
S, H or HS? S
Add a company: Pressed By - AB Svensk Grammofonindustri
Example: Thommy* & Christer Abrahamsson (2) - Ishockeyskola Med Thommy & Christer Abrahamsson

A couple more Swedes for the list.
Engineers & mastering studio referenced by name in the artwork of the linked releases :)

Ped (Image: http://s.pixogs.com/image/R-1345968-1359749884-3580.jpeg)
S, H or HS? H
Add a company: Mastered at Europa Film
Add a credit: Mastered By - Peter Dahl
Example: Factory - Factory

BA-EF
S, H or HS? HS
Add a company: Mastered at Europa Film
Add a credit: Mastered By - Björn Almstedt
Example: Nexus (50) & Enrico Rava - Nexus Meets Enrico Rava

Added to list.
Just to let you know: I will be away over X-Mas and New Year and not (really) able to update.
Wishing you all a Merry Christmas (replace with seasons greetings of your choice) and a happy 2014.

I just subbed Wayne Wilfong? It seems plausible, but I don't like to assume.

I just subbed Wayne Wilfong? It seems plausible, but I don't like to assume.