How many Emil Berliner Studios are needed?

There are
Emil Berliner Studios.

History:
Universal M & L, CD pressing plant in Langenhagen. It succeeded the "Universal Recording Services" (URS) and was responsible for all services regarding recording, audio engineering, tape mastering, tape archive, and lacquer cutting.
The studio is often directly credited with location or as Emil Berliner Studios, Han(n)over. However, sometimes only as "Emil Berliner Studios".

Emil Berliner Studios was established in 2008, by way of management buy-out: "Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH" was renamed and a new independent company "EBS Productions GmbH & Co. KG" was established, carrying on as "Emil Berliner Studios" (usually credited as such but sometimes Langenhagen pops up, too).
In 2009, the management of EBS decided to move business from Langenhagen to Berlin, which lasted until 2010.

So, we have:
- Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as part of DGG (2000 - 2008, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)
- Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as an independent company (2008 - 2009/2010, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS).
- Emil Berliner Studios in Berlin as the same independent company (since 2009/2010, credited as Emil-Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)

How many profiles do we need?
a) Keep both (but clearly distinguishing the locations Langenhagen and Berlin)?
b) Keep Emil Berliner Studios only (having all entries since 2000 conveniently under 1 "roof")?
c) Create new "Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH" for entries between 2000 and 2008 and use Emil Berliner Studios for everything after 2008, regardless the location.
d) Create new "Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH" for entries between 2000 and 2008 and use Emil Berliner Studios for entries since 2010?
EDIT:
e) Create "Emil Berliner Studios, Berlin" for releases since 2009 and keep "Emil Berliner Studios, Langenhagen" for everything before 2009.

Pinging for their esteemed opinions:
W.B.
(with sincere thanks for allowing me to ping you!)

sebfact
a) Keep both (but clearly distinguishing the locations Langenhagen and Berlin)?

+1 to this one I think

I'd keep both, the Langenhagen and Berlin locations.

a) seems the best choice.

Thanks for the ping. If it's established 'enough' (and easily distinguishable) I'd go for (with explanations in profiles) option d) actually. This seems the way we do things around here. Two different companies will have separate entries. Two different locations likewise will have separate entries.

sebfact
a) Keep both (but clearly distinguishing the locations Langenhagen and Berlin)?

+1

I really don't know in this case, I cannot help.

If we take care for the companies and the locations, we should use:
- Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Langenhagen (2000-2007)
- Emil Berliner Studios - Productions GmbH & Co. KG, Langenhagen (2008-2009)
- Emil Berliner Studios - Productions GmbH & Co. KG, Berlin (since 2010).

But is that really practicable? We will then have to re-declare a lot of data carriers.
And the complete, i.e. different names of the company are certainly not always recognizable. And categorization by date alone is not always easy either (date of production vs. date of publication)

Hence, option b) sound good to me - As long as everything is sufficiently explained in the profile.

I tend to think option A too but OK with whatever the majority consensus prefers.

b) Keep Emil Berliner Studios only (having all entries since 2000 conveniently under 1 "roof")?
If there is a problem with identification I tend to prefer a roll-in of profiles.

sebfact
c) Create new "Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH" for entries between 2000 and 2008 and use Emil Berliner Studios for everything after 2008, regardless the location.

I vote for c) because we have a new independant company from 2008 on.
I would keep:
Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH
and
Emil Berliner Studios (as Productions GmbH & Co. KG - regardless the location)

sebfact
b) Keep Emil Berliner Studios only

+1

hafler3o
If there is a problem with identification I tend to prefer a roll-in of profiles.

Most probably, there will be problems with identification sooner or later.

j_lit
I tend to think option A too

As do I.

Recap: so far we have (22.05.2025):
Option A: 9
Option B: 4
Options C and D and E: 1 each.

I vote for a).
Although b) has it's advantages, too.

Under one roof, option b -with basic profile info stating 3 different phases in history (ownership, name variant, time period) like described in intro:
“Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as part of DGG (2000 - 2008, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)
- Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as an independent company (2008 - 2009/2010, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS).
- Emil Berliner Studios in Berlin as the same independent company (since 2009/2010, credited as Emil-Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)”
That way there is very little room for confusion, and for those interested in specifics concerning company, the profile page will provide more detail.
On the other hand, with option that would include 2 or 3 different profiles, would result in regular cases where incorrect one would be tagged to the newly created submission = continuous and never ending need to check, edit and correct

Obscured-By-Crowdz
“ Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as part of DGG (2000 - 2008, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)
- Emil Berliner Studios in Langenhagen as an independent company (2008 - 2009/2010, either explicitly credited or as Emil Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS).
- Emil Berliner Studios in Berlin as the same independent company (since 2009/2010, credited as Emil-Berliner Studios; Runouts have EBS)”

IMO, these company names and time slots should be used for the three phases inside the profile:
- Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Langenhagen (2000-2007)
- Emil Berliner Studios - Productions GmbH & Co. KG, Langenhagen (2008-2009)
- Emil Berliner Studios - Productions GmbH & Co. KG, Berlin (since 2010).

cf. Emil Berliner Studios

Never mind.

I’m in favour of keeping separate studios that move cities, but believe I lost that argument some while back. andrenafulva?

avalon67
I’m in favour of keeping separate studios that move cities, but believe I lost that argument some while back. andrenafulva?

I'm probably not the greatest authority on this, but as far as I can recall nik's ruling – that a studio moving location within one city/region should be contained under a single PCN but a studio moving right across the country would need two separate PCNs – hasn't been overturned by consensus.

I might of course have missed a recent discussion about this. I think it was two or three years ago that I last recall this coming up.

avalon67
I’m in favour of keeping separate studios that move cities

and

andrenafulva
would need two separate PCNs

Would you tend to option A) then?

sebfact
Would you tend to option A) then?

Having now read your post fully, I think I would – actually, for an amended version of a).

I don't think the chance in ownership matters if the same physical facility continued as a studio, so I don't think there's any need to create "Emil Berliner Studios - Deutsche Grammophon GmbH" and "EBS Productions GmbH & Co. KG". Studios are a bit like labels in that we credit them by their consumer-focused trading name rather than the legal company entity, and that trading name can be used by several different companies over time.

However, given that there is a massive scope for credits being added to the wrong PCN if Emil Berliner Studios would then be invalidated unless it needs to be kept for releases for which it is not possible to establish at which studio facility the work was done. I imagine that case is unlikely as there's a defined cut-off date for the operation of the two studio facilities.

By the way, there's a confusing start to the profile on Emil Berliner Studios:

German studio founded by Emile Berliner (the inventor of the gramophone and gramophone record), based in Berlin, .

Originally established in 2000

Given that Emile Berliner died in 1929, I'm not quite sure how both these sentences can be true.

Hm, I have added that as option e). However, roughly 1000 entries need to be moved to the new PCN then (but only roughly 670 need to be moved to the "Langenhagen" profile).

andrenafulva
Given that Emile Berliner died in 1929, I'm not quite sure how both these sentences can be true.

Good catch. The profiles have to be adjusted / sanitized anyway.

a) Keep both (but clearly distinguishing the locations Langenhagen and Berlin)?

And possibly a third catch-all, in case it's not clear which of the two is right, when Langenhagen or Berlin isn't specified and can't be determined another way.

sebfact
EDIT:
e) Create "Emil Berliner Studios, Berlin" for releases since 2009

IMO since 2010

AudioPhilet
IMO since 2010

It's a bit tricky: they started moving in 2009 but the lathe only in 2010, completing the move.