[RESOLVED] PAN Swap - Em Walcott / Emelie Kristina Walcott

I just noticed a PAN swap from Emelie Kristina Walcott to https://www.discogs.sie.com/artist/11726531-Emelie-Kristina-Walcott/history

Emelie Kristina Walcott was created 3 years ago.
Em Walcott 3 days ago.

Pinging Nicolas-1223 who swapped the PAN today.

If we trust the data as entered:
- 1 release is credited to Emelie Kristina Walcott
- 2 releases (one with 4 versions in the MR) are credited to Emelie Walcott
- 3 releases to Em Walcott

PAN swaps should usually be discussed before moving. Is this one fine to leave moved? Or should we consider moving back?

(As an aside, just a general note for anyone who empties a profile: It's always a good idea to clear the profile/image of the emptied profile. While unlikely in this case, it's possible the emptied profiles might be reused someday with a different person, so it's always good to clean things up.)

As it happens frequently, an artist may use a "shortened" version of the name as artistic name, while for typical legal/bureaucratical credits (like composer/songwriter/copyright and so on) the credit to the artist usually is in displayed in the full name.
This specific case is a perfec example:

Em Walcott is the common name but often she's credited with her full name Emelie Kristina Walcott.

As she had already on Discogs her profile as Emelie Kristina Walcott, I thought it was correct to add one for the alias Em Walcott.
Nothing extraordinary on Discogs, just business as usual, if I can say.

Therefore I find wrong and incorrect the action of Nicolas-1223 to force all her credits in just 1 profile.

Thanks for the heads up, I had meant to clear the image before but just did that now.

I swapped the PAN on the basis that she uses Em Walcott as her professional name, per her official Spotify songwriter page and Instagram. To me it seems counterintuitive to make her full name the PAN as she doesn't officially use her middle name anywhere online, it's only in the legal songwriting credits as mentioned.

I also don't think an alias should be used here as Em Walcott is simply a variation of her real name, not an entirely different name.

Come on: Em is so different from Emelie Kristina, that's why the 2 different profiles should be kept.
There are artists with several aliases and profiles, so it's not a big deal if she has at least 2 profiles. :-)

Per the Discogs guidelines on aliases:

If the name is simply a variation or abbreviation, don't use aliases, but instead use the Artist Name Variation function.

Em is an abbreviation of Emelie, therefore it seems pretty clear-cut that Emelie should be an ANV. Credits that include the artist's middle name are also considered ANVs.

You would be righr if the choice is only between Em Walcott and Emelie Walcott.
But what about, as I already said, when she's credited as Emelie Kristina Walcott ? Currently on Discogs there's only 1 credit like that but there could be more still to be discovered in the releases she contributed to.
Think about it.

Nicolas-1223
Per the Discogs guidelines on aliases:

If the name is simply a variation or abbreviation, don't use aliases, but instead use the Artist Name Variation function.

Em is an abbreviation of Emelie, therefore it seems pretty clear-cut that Emelie should be an ANV.

Anyway, it seems obvious that you and I don't agree about this subject, so it would be nice to hear what others have to say ;-)

Nicolas-1223
Credits that include the artist's middle name are also considered ANVs.

That's where we don't meet

Pinging some folks if they are interested in assisting:

typoman2

Thanks!

A few thoughts:

Em Walcott and Emelie Kristina Walcott can absolutely be ANVs of each other, regardless of which one is the PAN. We might be able to make a case for aliases between these two names, but there's so few credits here that I don't believe we have enough to see a long term pattern that there is an intentional split by the artist.

As for the move of all the credits, that definitely should not have been done without discussion first. I understand making the second profile and linking them as aliases - that doesn't necessarily require a forum thread. But it's always good to discuss this when essentially credits on a 3 year old profile are moved to a 2 day old profile.

Obviously not an alias and really not much differentiation going on there. Instagram uses both "Em Walcott" and "Emelie Walcott" and the only performing credit in the database is for "Emelie Walcott", so far for that argument. But she's mainly a songwriter anyway as far as I can see.

Alias should never have been created and PAN swap never should have happened.

rdvriese
Alias should never have been created and PAN swap never should have happened.

Agreed. Emelie Walcott and Em Walcott are ANVs of Emelie Kristina Walcott.

sandblasted
Em Walcott.

Em Walcott is an ANV of Emelie Kristina Walcott, not an alias.

el_duro
rdvrieseAlias should never have been created and PAN swap never should have happened.

Agreed. Emelie Walcott and Em Walcott are ANVs of Emelie Kristina Walcott.

+1

LolH
sandblastedEm Walcott.
Em Walcott is an ANV of Emelie Kristina Walcott, not an alias.

This

Thanks for the ping. PAN swaps are not allowed per RSG §2.15.3. until discussed.

And had it been discussed, I would've been in favor of no swap, the original PAN is fine, with the rest as ANVs. Not aliases.

But if it turns out down the road the artist has more "performing" credits billed, it can of course be revisited.

I had forgotten about this thread. Summarizing the above discussion:

PAN should be Emelie Kristina Walcott:
rdvriese
el_duro
LolH
hafler3o
TopCats45s
j_lit
baldorr

Both PANs should be used:
sandblasted

PAN should be Em Walcott:
Nicolas-1223

It seems that the majority are in favor of restoring the full name PAN and having all credits there with ANV as appropriate. I'll let this sit for another day and then clean this up.

I forgot about it too.
At this point, I stand with the majority: if only 1 PAN, then it should be Emelie Kristina Walcott, therefore Em Walcott as ANV

sandblasted
At this point, I stand with the majority: if only 1 PAN, then it should be Emelie Kristina Walcott, therefore Em Walcott as ANV

+1

baldorr
PAN should be Emelie Kristina Walcott

Count me in as well.

I just got aware of this discussion.

Please count my vote for 'Emelie Kristina Walcott' as the only PAN, and all other versions as ANVs.