• dub_e_72
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    since the latest archer record pressing history and the questions we have about identification, here a dedicated thread.
    thank you for ing,
    dub_e_72’

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  • dub_e_72
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    posted a few minutes ago at the label’s history :

    last edit is not so bad, imo... actually, the company can be listed when ‘NSC + ARP’ are found on the same run-outs, it can also be identified when a standing alone ‘ARCHER’ was found etched.

    it still needs evidence and improvement from the 95 + ARP’ are found etched. probably as well as many more combinations still needing more investigation, etchings pictures, etc...

    additionally, catalogs of related companies Studio A, Dearborn Heights, MI (etched ‘AS’, or ‘As’, or ‘95’, or... !?), need to be checked, imo !

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  • dub_e_72
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    would like to invite oggers more or less involved with the profile : dsyn2spin ;

    + mr.dna (from the master list) ;

    + Acme Vinyl Corp.).

    hope we will find together the most correct updates needed to the respective profiles above, asap.

    best 20/20 wishes to everyone ! d’

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  • bargainvinyl1
    8.9k

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    dub_e_72
    would like to invite oggers more or less involved with the profile : ismistik, deejayzaq, sebfact, bargainvinyl1, brunorepublic, andrenafulva, aussieozborn, _jules and dsyn2spin ;

    + trailoff and mr.dna (from the master list) ;

    + cheebacheebakid (aware about similar regional etched schemes, with ‘NSC+ACME or NSC+AVC’, about the similar plant, Acme Vinyl Corp.).

    hope we will find together the most correct updates needed to the respective profiles above, asap.

    best 20/20 wishes to everyone ! d’


    Perhaps an email to the company ?
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Archer-Record-Pressing/149782465064800
    https://detroitrecordman.com/articles/archerrecordpressing.php

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  • andrenafulva
    66

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    Thanks for the invite. I'm afraid I don't have any knowledge about this company nor anything helpful to add. I'll just paste here the suggestion I made in the runouts thread, so it's here for consideration, although it probably won't prove to be helpful (you already disagreed with it in that thread).

    andrenafulva


    dub_e_72

    any idea what mean those standing alone ‘95’ along side ‘archer’, on these run-outs ?

    If you're asking only about the significance of '95' in those cases, I can't help. If you're also asking about the significance of 'ARCHER', then Archer Record Pressing looks worth investigating. Some of those releases also have the etching 'AR' (sometimes with a number), which seems to refer to the company so I wonder whether 'Archer' might refer to a cut by company founder Norman Archer himself? There is a website for the company, updated last year, with an email address. You could perhaps them to see if they can tell you what 'Archer' and '95' mean. http://www.archerrecordpressing.com/blogs/

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  • dsyn2spin
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    I have seen many 12" single releases with the NSC stamp
    that don't seem to have any obvious plant identifier in the run-outs
    Since it is a well known fact that lacquers originating from NSC
    would most likely go to Archer (Did Archer do all their own plating?)
    for pressing, I thought it was a good idea to make the association
    on the Archer page

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  • cassdetroit
    1

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    AR numbers specifically correspond to invoice numbers as issued by the pressing plant Archer. If a customer delivered a job without an explicit catalog number, it was assigned an AR number so as to have something to refer to it by internally.

    95 was Archer’s company code at Nashville Matrix, the company that often did the plating/metalwork for Archer jobs.

    Archer never did any in-house cutting as they never had/operated a lathe.

    I’ve been researching the plant and it’s releases solidly for ten years, have been a customer for about 16 years, have worked there and have combed through piles of their old invoices to discern all this information

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  • dub_e_72
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    cassdetroit
    95 was Archer’s company code at Nashville Matrix

    excellent ! would like master list, asap.

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    cassdetroit
    AR numbers specifically correspond to invoice numbers as issued by the pressing plant Archer.
    matter is the scheme ‘ar-xxxx’ cannot be a rule, or, a way of identification about archer, since we have similar etched cat# standing about, arista, ariola, or whatever, i cannot exactly...

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  • sebfact
    90.3k

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    dub_e_72
    would like sebfact to read this and update the master list, asap.
    Done.

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

    dub_e_72 edited over 5 years ago
    sebfact
    Done.
    thank you so much for your add, seb’ ! now ‘95’ was identified, really would like to distinguish which releases in American Record Pressing Co.... i’m afraid ‘AS’ etching doesn’t help, unfortunately.

    dsyn2spin
    thought it was a good idea to make the association on the Archer page
    i agree ‘NSC + ARP’ should be added to the profile. but, your last edits were only about supposed pressing rings and/or job numbers, we unfortunately cannot use, since they are definitely not exclusive to Archer Record Pressing, imo.

    cassdetroit
    AR numbers specifically correspond to invoice numbers as issued by the pressing plant Archer. If a customer delivered a job without an explicit catalog number, it was assigned an AR number so as to have something to refer to it by internally.
    your presence here is precious, cassdetroit ! thank you again for your post and for you to the discussion !

    oggers probably have noticed those internal invoice numbers. unfortunately, Archer Record Pressing...). hope you understand the reasoning ;o)

    that said, if ‘95’ was standing for the plating done at Ardent Studios before 1980 (don’t know exactly...) ?

    finally Dreamboy (3) - Let's Go Out

    edit :
    + Chuck Cole - Your Loving / Stop Accusing Me
    + Click (16) - It's That Feeling / You Can't Run Away From Love

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  • Diognes_The_Fox
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    These appear to all be valid updates to me. I the addition of AR #'s to those subs.

    Thank you for your work here, cassdetroit.

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  • dsyn2spin
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    "Nashville Matrix" Ok, thanks, that makes sense . But didn't N.M. also
    use their own stamp? I've seen it on 45's mostly on Stax IIRC.

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  • dub_e_72
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    Diognes_The_Fox
    These appear to all be valid updates to me. I the addition of AR #'s to those subs. Thank you for your work here, cassdetroit.
    excellent ! thank you so much for having checked, Diognes_The_Fox !

    would like to suggest to use exactly the words like used by there), in order to update correctly the profile, on this point. or still, to add :

    ‘AR numbers specifically correspond to sequential invoice numbers as issued by the pressing plant Archer. If a customer delivered a job without an explicit catalog number, it was assigned an AR number so as to have something to refer to it by internally. To wit, just because something has ARxxxx in the runout does not ALWAYS mean it’s an Archer pressing. But if it’s a small label, from the Detroit/Michigan area, it is almost certain.‘

    +++ (maybe) : ’Archer never did any in-house cutting as they never had/operated a lathe.’

    opinion ?

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  • dub_e_72
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    would like to invite uzumaki ? thanks in advance, d’

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  • berothbr
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    cassdetroit
    I’ve been researching the plant and it’s releases solidly for ten years, have been a customer for about 16 years, have worked there and have combed through piles of their old invoices to discern all this information
    That's awesome. I your edits. My only 'objection' is that the AR#s should be formatted as those appear on the physical release, which is what RSG §4.7.1 instructs us to do and is more accurate. There's no need to go back and fix everything, but moving forward this is how we're supposed to enter that data.

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  • uzumaki
    91

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    dub_e_72
    would like to invite uzumaki, who was about to add a picture of the etched ‘AS’, like found last month etched on one of the first Metroplex pressed by archer, in order to identify and/or to distinguish this one, which was probably different than ‘AS’ already standing for Ardent Studios in the master list... please, can you have a look and , uzumaki ? thanks in advance, d’


    I sent you this in PM: https://imgur.com/jetVtGw - I don't know what the AS stands for or what company it should be added to, it may not even be AS.

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  • dsyn2spin
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    Here is a noteworthy example Mike Parker - Resonator EP of a release that has nothing
    whatsoever in it's etched run-out data that could be used to positively identify
    Archer as the plant that pressed it. However, in this case, the artist who
    made the record and released it, has confirmed that his personal records
    and receipts show that it was indeed pressed at Archer Record Pressing.
    I own a copy of this particular release and have measured the press rings
    to be 1.20" and a sloped outer ring of about 2.60 respectively.

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  • etnofunk
    881

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    Diognes_The_Fox
    These appear to all be valid updates to me


    Is it not required to add the runouts when adding credits from it?
    For example these do not indicate where the credit is from:

    https://www.discogs.sie.com/Lynn-Shearman-All-Alone-Again/release/13899060

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  • dub_e_72
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    uzumaki
    I sent you this in PM: https://imgur.com/jetVtGw - I don't know what the AS stands for or what company it should be added to, it may not even be AS.

    hi uzumaki, and thank you for your reply ! i well your p.m. i have asked you then if it was possible for you to the same picture on the website. unfortunately, my device still cannot open this picture :( does it needs an imgur.com’s , or something... ??

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  • dub_e_72
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    re : ’there are still many unanswered questions’ (posted by there)

    i’m more than ever agree, Diognes_The_Fox decision, i’m pretty sure we go this way and i hope finally 2020 will be the year.

    actually, the most interesting things i have learned about the company was coming from a small 10 minutes video recorded with a phone’s camera, by a fan making a tour of the manufacture with fusionaudio on the website, but i’m not sure...). unfortunately, since last year i have seen this video, it was removed from youtube or dailymotion :o(

    if only this youtube’s could read these lines and re-up the video... it was shown there, archer was the owner of 3 or 4 plants, an old ‘lened’ one (maybe the first plant of the company) plus 2 or 3 other different plants (maybe ‘smt’ / ‘mst’, i’m not an expert...). it was shown as well, archer was owning its own labels printing plant in a separate room, a shrinkwrap machinery (a ‘cryovac’ one, inspiring andy garcia about the name of his own label) and a stampers library, but no galvanization equipment or lathe, in order to cut the masters or to plate these ones.

    now we have 1000 items pointing archer, against 200 or 300 a few months ago, i’m spending all my days long to check each archer release pictures and each label / artist’s release related to. for sure, since it was decided ‘AR’ was a valid identifier about the company, it helps ! about pressing rings, i stil have 3 or 4 hundreds items to check from the profile, but i already have noticed we can find 3 or 4 different kinds of those on the database, and, to establish a rule from these ones will be very difficult (more again, without to know if these rings are typically archer ones, or typically plant brands ones)...

    in example, please have a look at ’sebfactduring master list v.6, before to submit this version (by chance it was not merged during the last request).

    for sure, any archer’s employee, label manager and/or artist related to, contributions to this thread, should be very helpful and very appreciated. please, excuse my french ! best regards from paris, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    Archer Record Pressing, or... ?

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    HOT WAXX like etched on these Archer Record Pressing, or... ?
    please, can you have a look ? thanks in advance, d’

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  • cassdetroit
    1

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    uzumaki
    dub_e_72would like to invite uzumaki, who was about to add a picture of the etched ‘AS’, like found last month etched on one of the first Metroplex pressed by archer, in order to identify and/or to distinguish this one, which was probably different than ‘AS’ already standing for Ardent Studios in the master list... please, can you have a look and , uzumaki ? thanks in advance, d’

    I sent you this in PM: https://imgur.com/jetVtGw - I don't know what the AS stands for or what company it should be added to, it may not even be AS.


    I asked George Ingram from Nashville Record Productions if he knew what "AS" stood for when appearing in run-out grooves of these releases. I mentioned Ardent and Studio A and his response was that he was fairly certain "AS" was the signature of Al Smith, a cutting engineer who used to work at both Ardent and Nashville Record Productions.

    George been doing this shit for 50 years, seems like he's known everyone in the small world of cutting engineers. I don't know if that's enough background to claim it as fact or gospel, but definitely something to keep in the back of our minds.

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  • dub_e_72
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    cassdetroit
    his response was that he was fairly certain "AS" was the signature of Al Smith
    excellent, cassdetroit !
    so many al smith on the database... but, it looks like Al Smith (13) is matching !
    and more especially the releases :
    - ’Nashville Record Productions
    - ’Ardent Studios
    - or still, ’Flynn & Carolyn Johnson - Free At Last’
    the 3 releases reading at the same time an etched ‘AS’ on the deadwax !
    please, can you have a look, sebfact, and let us know your opinion ?

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  • sebfact
    90.3k

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    dub_e_72
    and let us know your opinion ?
    ATM we have AS for Ardent Studios when in combination with MCRP. So, would this "Al Smith" AS be an addition or is it replacing the existing one?

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  • dub_e_72
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    since encarnita ! it makes any doubt test pressings of the company were delivered with blank hand-written orange labels ! with hundreds of archer items i overviewed these last weeks, i already noticed this, and now with your comments, i think it was enough to improve this supposition there. thank you so much for your and your help, d’

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  • encarnita
    596

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    Thank you dub_e_72 for all your work! Yeah, now we have solved the Problem with the "Archer" White Label Test Pressings! But there are countless more White Labels in the Data Base that are not allowed to be submitted as Test Pressing! But it's exactly the same case, some of them are definitely white labels, those pressed in high quantity as whites to safe money on the Label, like it often happens with Techno Releases! But than there are many White Label Test Pressings submitted as White Label only .... but indeed many of them are Test Pressings! Maybe we should check if we can correct them as well ... so it makes sense! there is a big difference between a 500 copies white Label Pressing and a 3-5 copies White Label Test Pressing, usually you get test pressings from the Pressing Plant to check the Quality and than confirm! Usually 5-20 copies depending from the Plant!

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  • dub_e_72
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    sebfact
    would this "Al Smith" AS be an addition or is it replacing the existing one?
    very tricky ! actually it was like we will have found ‘Marie-Pierre Ombeline’ working c/o Al Smith (13) to the list (now we know he exists...) ?

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  • sebfact
    90.3k

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    dub_e_72
    hat do you need exactly to add Al Smith (13) to the list (now we know he exists...) ?
    Images of his scribe and from AS / NRP to see the difference :-)

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  • dub_e_72
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    encarnita
    usually you get test pressings from Pressing Plant to check the Quality and than confirm! Usually 5-20 copies depending from the Plant!
    i’m glad to meet a ogger who know this ! would like to add it depends also if this option was ordered by the record companies to the plant, or not...
    encarnita
    Maybe we should check if we can correct them as well ... so it makes sense!
    for sure, the database is not so reliable about ‘test pressings’, or still, about ‘limited edition’... the fault to the guidelines (imo), telling ‘third part sources are allowed’, giving at the same time correct definitions of these formats in dedicated chapter and list, nobody is reading, unfortunately... arrrfff, if only a mass cleaning could be done about these formats ! but, it’s an other debate...

    about a second 1993 kind of label, which was clearly a test pressing as well [i](probably the other side of the previous one, don’t know exactly...). what do you think ?

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

    dub_e_72 edited over 5 years ago
    sebfact
    Images of his scribe and from AS / NRP to see the difference :-)
    there is a link above, posted by uzumaki, i don’t know why my device cannot read... please, can you have a look ?

    [edit : link -> https://imgur.com/jetVtGw]

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  • encarnita
    596

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    Yo dub_e_72, regarding the Orange colored Test Pressings at Archer, I have white & orange Labels all from the 80s, but I should att the following Info, I think I have 6 Orange Archer test Pressings, they are all from 1986! Older or newer than 86 are white, and I have many! But same like you I cannot confirm it!
    So do you think we should have the same procedure for other White Label Test Pressings not related to "Archer" ? I mean most of the Miami or California Test Pressings from the early to the mid80s were mostly whites, but until now several discoggers pushed me to correct it and to change it from Test Pressing to White Label! I have tried to explain several times that not all White Labels are the same ( as discussed in a previous message ). I would love to see all these wrong "White Label" Submissions corrected back to "Test Pressing".

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  • dub_e_72
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    i can be wrong encarnita, but to my mind official test pressings are always delivered by the companies with printed labels, like this europadisk one, this disc makers one, this pallas one, this old mpo one, or still, this dfi one (i like to the pictures to the profiles of the companies, when i find one on the database...).

    that said, i know sometimes the labels prefer to add their own ‘test pressing’ stamps or hand-writings on the few white labels they have received at the same time of the entire pressings, the more often the 20, 30 or 50 first or last discs of the entire batch, they have especially ordered to the plant, in order to promote the release. in example, during the 90’s, Nervous Records have printed their own ‘test pressing’ labels, whereas every europadisk test pressings delivered the same year were like this one (probably the label have had a special contract with the plant...) !

    so, my opinion is Discogs have to do a distinction between official test pressings delivered by the pressing plants from the ‘test pressings’ like heard by the labels or the producers (meaning ‘promo’ to my mind !), in order to be more reliable on this point ; and the guidelines still need changes or updates.

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  • berothbr
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    dub_e_72
    i can be wrong encarnita, but to my mind official test pressings are always delivered by the companies with printed labels
    it depends on the pressing plant and the record label. For small plants and/or indie releases, branding is not always present and/or info is just handwritten rather than printed.

    Edit: also, you can get a good idea about what encarnita is talking about by clicking through his submissions - there are a lot of good examples.

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  • Diognes_The_Fox
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    I don't really see the need to add the # to the Archer entry on the submission if it's the same as the main cat#. It should use that information on the label page.

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  • sebfact
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    dub_e_72
    there is a link above, posted by uzumaki, i don’t know why my device cannot read... please, can you have a look ?
    That looks similar to the etch on the Ardent profile: S somewhat below A.
    What we need are pix of confirmed Ardent etchings and of confirmed Al Smith etchings.

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  • andrenafulva
    66

    andrenafulva edited over 5 years ago
    For dub_e_72:

    Here, as you requested, is my rewriting of the profile text for the Archer Record Pressing page. I haven't been following this discussion carefully, so I'm not aware of all the facts of the case. I hope I haven't introduced any errors with my changes.

    I've corrected grammar and tried to simplify the text as much as possible. I've also removed your side-notes (in italics). Hopefully I've managed to capture all the essential information in a simple form. Obviously, if anything is wrong or unclear, it can be changed. If you'd like me to help with that, let me know.

    One question: should there be a 'How to enter' section, giving the roles for Archer, NSC and Nashville Matrix, and specifying whether or not the ARxxxx numbers can be added to LCCN (and, if they can, in what form they should be added)? I didn't add this section as I've not been following the discussion closely enough to be sure I could get it right.

    Another quick question: does 'ARP' appear as the identifier for Archer only in conjunction with 'NSC'? If so, I should rewrite that section to make this clear. I've written it on the assumption that 'ARP' sometimes appears on its own, and could therefore be confused with American Record Pressing Co.

    Record pressing plant located in Detroit, Michigan, USA. The plant was founded by Norman Archer in late 1965, and continues to work with various independent record label operators. The company is now run by Norman's grandson Mike Archer. Cryovac Recordings, is known to have worked there. The plant has never had a lathe and so has never done any in-house cutting.

    7" and 12" test pressings were delivered by the company with blank orange labels between 1965 and 1990. 12" test pressings from 1990 onwards have printed black and white labels showing an Archer Record Pressing logo on one side and "Advance Pressing" on the other side, with fields for date, customer, matrix number, title and artist.

    How to identify Archer pressings
    – Archer pressings are identified by either "ARCHER" or "NSC ARP" etched into the runouts. "NSC" signifies that the mastering was done by National Sound Corporation
    – Note: If "ARP" appears on its own, please consider American Record Pressing Co.
    – "95" signifies that the metalwork was processed by Nashville Matrix.
    – Some releases also have a number in the pattern "ARxxxxx". Please do not identify Archer on the basis of an AR number alone, as this pattern is not unique to Archer. If, however, the release is on a small label from the Detroit/Michigan area, it is likely to have been pressed by Archer.

    How to enter into LCCN
    "ARCHER"
    Add a company: Pressed By – Archer Record Pressing

    "NSC ARP"
    Add a company: Mastered At - National Sound Corporation
    Add a company: Pressed By – Archer Record Pressing

    "95"
    Add a company: Mastered At - Nashville Matrix

    The sequential number "ARxxxxx" can be added to the catalogue number field of the Pressed By credit only if it appears in conjunction with "ARCHER" or "NSC ARP". On its own, it is not a unique identifier for Archer and should not be used to make an identification. It should also not be entered if this number is also the catalogue number of the release.

    Raw code:
    Record pressing plant located in Detroit, Michigan, USA. The plant was founded by Norman Archer in late 1965, and continues to work with various independent record label operators. The company is now run by Norman's grandson Mike Archer. [ a=Andy Garcia], label manager of [ l=Docile Recordings] and [ l=Cryovac Recordings], is known to have worked there. The plant has never had a lathe and so has never done any in-house cutting.

    7" and 12" test pressings were delivered by the company with blank orange labels between 1965 and 1990. 12" test pressings from 1990 onwards have printed black and white labels showing an Archer Record Pressing logo on one side and "Advance Pressing" on the other side, with fields for date, customer, matrix number, title and artist.

    [ b]How to identify Archer pressings[ /b]
    – Archer pressings are identified by either "[ b]ARCHER[ /b]" or "[ b]NSC ARP[ /b]" etched into the runouts. "[ b]NSC[ /b]" signifies that the mastering was done by [ l=National Sound Corporation]
    – [ i]Note[ /i]: If "ARP" appears on its own, please consider [ l=American Record Pressing Co.]
    – "[ b]95[ /b]" signifies that the metalwork was processed by [ l=Nashville Matrix].
    – Some releases also have a number in the pattern "[ b]ARxxxxx[ /b]". Please do not identify Archer on the basis of an AR number alone, as this pattern is not unique to Archer. If, however, the release is on a small label from the Detroit/Michigan area, it is likely to have been pressed by Archer.

    [ b]How to enter into LCCN[ /b]
    "ARCHER"
    Add a company: Pressed By – [ l=Archer Record Pressing]

    "NSC ARP"
    Add a company: Mastered At - [ l=National Sound Corporation]
    Add a company: Pressed By – [ l=Archer Record Pressing]

    "95"
    Add a company: Mastered At - [ l=Nashville Matrix]

    The sequential number "ARxxxxx" can be added to the catalogue number field of the Pressed By credit [ i]only[ /i] if it appears in conjunction with "ARCHER" or "NSC ARP". On its own, it is not a unique identifier for Archer and should not be used to make an identification. It should also not be entered if this number is also the catalogue number of the release.

    Hope that helps.

    Edit: reworked 12/1/20 in response to comments by dub_e_72.

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  • disneyfacts
    7

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    If there's anything I can add or update on the Record Pressing Plant list, let me know.

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    andrenafulva
    Hope that helps.
    👍🏻 excellent, andrenafulva ! thank you so much. this helps, and your version sounds much more greater than my french/english one...

    andrenafulva
    does 'ARP' appear as the identifier for Archer only in conjunction with 'NSC'?
    exactly !

    andrenafulva
    should there be a 'How to enter' section
    it’s a good idea ! the best form should be like it appears on the master list(s), imo.

    on this point, please Diognes_The_Fox ? do the lccn section of the database have reached its maximum (with 34 roles), and it cannot be added, or... ? if so, maybe it’s doable to replace ‘exported by’, or ‘filmed at’, i’m not sure they are so much used by the community, actually... what do you think ?

    Diognes_The_Fox
    I don't really see the need to add the # to the Archer entry on the submission if it's the same as the main cat#. It should use that information on the label page.
    brent is right, andrenafulva ! it’s a bit redundant. or, the cat# to be changed by ‘none’, since we know archer was using this pattern for labels which didn’t have a specific cat#. don’t know exactly, not an expert of this kind of question...

    have a nice day, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    sebfact
    That looks similar to the etch on the Ardent profile: S somewhat below A.
    thank you, seb’.
    sebfact
    What we need are pix of confirmed Ardent etchings and of confirmed Al Smith etchings.
    sorry, i’m afraid i cannot help with my collec, about ardent studios... but, as told above :
    cassdetroit
    definitely something to keep in the back of our minds.

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  • andrenafulva
    66

    Show this post
    dub_e_72
    have a nice day, d’

    Thanks for your comments. I've reworked the text in my comment above. Hope it now matches reality and is clear and simple enough.

    dub_e_72
    it’s a bit redundant. or, the cat# to be changed by ‘none’, since we know archer was using this pattern for labels which didn’t have a specific cat#. don’t know exactly, not an expert of this kind of question...

    That's a good question. I've changed the text to reflect what Brent said. If, however, the decision is to use 'none' as cat # for these self-releases, I can change the text to reflect that.

    I'm trying to what is done in other, similar cases. Personally, what seems logical to me and in the spirit of 'as on release' is to use the AR as the release's catalogue number if it is present on the sleeve and/or labels as a catalogue number; if, on the other hand, it appears only in the runouts and there is no number on sleeve or labels, use 'none' as cat # and enter the AR number against the Pressed By credit.

    An example where the AR number is used as a catalogue number for the release: Dr. T. Lobsang Rampa* - Meditation.
    An example where there is no catalogue number for the release: New Temple - Shema Yisrael.

    What do you think?

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  • dub_e_72
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    andrenafulva
    I've changed the text to reflect what Brent said.
    it’s perfect !

    andrenafulva
    I've reworked the text in my comment above. Hope it now matches reality and is clear and simple enough.
    it does, andrenafulva, really ! great work, one more time ! thank you so much for this change !

    andrenafulva
    What do you think?
    +1 for you to update the profile this way. any objection, _jules,... ?

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  • dub_e_72
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    overviewing Alpha Records (13) :o(

    that said, it looks like ‘Criteria’ appears each time with the patterns on the run-outs, meaning ‘AR’ in conjunction with ‘Criteria’ is standing for ‘pressed by Archer Record Pressing !

    so, i have had to change the lccn of 4 items this morning :
    - We The Living - Carnival Of Vice
    - F (2) - You Are An E.P.
    - Gay Cowboys In Bondage - Owen Marshmallow Strikes Again (‘test pressing’ version)
    - Gay Cowboys In Bondage - Owen Marshmallow Strikes Again (commercial version)
    what it makes sense, as the pictures are reading they were produced by labels and/or artists from florida, not from michigan !

    thanks’

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  • andrenafulva
    66

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    dub_e_72
    great work, one more time ! thank you so much for this change !

    You're welcome. Writing English is one thing I can do!

    dub_e_72
    +1 for you to update the profile this way.

    I'm happy for anyone to update the text with what I've written. I've included the raw code in my comment above so anyone can do it easily. I don't mind updating it if no one wants to, but as it's not mainly my original text, I don't feel I need to to it.

    Anyway, glad to help a little bit.

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  • dsyn2spin
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    The new reworking of the profile is all fine and good except that it doesn't
    mention the fact that a sizable amount of releases that were pressed
    at Archer do NOT have any recognizable etchings in the runouts by
    which positive identification could be achieved for a pressed by role.
    I would start out the "How to Identify....." section by stating that outright
    So that people won't try to spend an unnecessary amount of time
    trying to figure that out like I did.

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  • dub_e_72
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    andrenafulva
    I'm happy for anyone to update the text with what I've written
    you are a great gentleman, andrenafulva ! i especially like ‘USA’ instead of ‘american pressing plant’ in your text ! for sure, you know what a database was made for, ‘USA’ being more useful than ‘american’ for those who are looking for companies from a specific country, in the search engine !

    and, thanks to a second great gentleman ( list of identified etchings - numbers (numbers part of the new master list), like requested above. i will add this information at the same time.

    cheers mates !

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  • dub_e_72
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    dsyn2spin
    The new reworking of the profile is all fine and good except that it doesn't mention the fact that a sizable amount of releases that were pressed at Archer do NOT have any recognizable etchings in the runouts by which positive identification could be achieved for a pressed by role.

    many thanks for your , dsyn2spin ! i would like to stay a bit more positive about the sizable amount of releases you are talking about, saying there is probably an identifier on these ones the community still haven’t found at the moment... ;o) to my point of view, it’s just a question of time and/or organization between us ! but, now a solid catalog basement of 1300 items can be found on the profile (against 200 or 300 a few months ago), why to do not take advantage of this one in order to compare pictures to find the missing pressing plant id we are looking for ?

    as already told before, i’m sure we are holding something (like a first key) with this Archer Record Pressing.

    i really would like to know what cassdetroit could tell us more technical info about the archer’s plants, too !

    dsyn2spin
    I would start out the "How to Identify....." section by stating that outright. So that people won't try to spend an unnecessary amount of time trying to figure that out like I did.

    it reminds me my beginnings, less than 3 years ago, whereas i have edited a few barcodes -> ‘none’, accordingly to RSG §5.10 in order to distinguish a few different releases with, the edits were the most of the times rejected by the community arguing ‘why to add something which doesn’t exist ?’, the same question can be asked, there...

    be sure, i understand this frustration, since i’ve made the same work and research during these last months, whereas my collection is actually showing 1% of my NSC items was pressed by archer, only ! but honestly, 90 or 95% of the dub_e_72 already did before, you will find nothing’    ... it should be more profitable to the database, imo... don’t we say ‘no pain, no gain’ in the u.s.a, or... ? ;o)

    respectfully, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

    dub_e_72 edited over 5 years ago
    please, can we have a look together at Alpha Records (13) ?

    this different pressing company was using the same pattern in florida, a bit before archer in time, with a faster cadence (perhaps, the company was owning two plants, instead of only one, in detroit). please, have a look at ‘Archer Record Pressing’s, imo !

    also, i ‘ve noticed archer’s timeline was :
    AR-7000 in 1985 -> AR-8000 in 90 -> AR-10000 in 96 -> AR-15000 in 2008 -> AR-20000 in 2020
    whereas 1970’s productions from florida can be found with 2003 archer job numbers...

    please Alpha Records (13) job numbers temporarily,
    in order to study the timeline of this company, as well ?

    or, perhaps, ‘AR’ has to be removed from archer job numbers first... (don’t know exactly !)

    - annex (like posted last week to the master list thread) :
    sebfact
    Is there more research done to have it added to the Master List then?
    i’m afraid not, seb’, unfortunately ! :o( i have found these ones checking a last time archer’s catalog and dates attached to the job numbers in the profile. nothing better than the 30 or 50 first results found with Archer Record Pressing’s, imo. thanks for the add of ‘pressed by’ role, about ‘95’...

    - edit : added ‘AR + Criteria’ link

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  • andrenafulva
    66

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    dub_e_72 thanks for adding the updated profile to the Archer page. I have just one small question about the How to enter into LCCN section. Does "95" on its own denote pressing by Archer as well as mastering by Nashville Matrix, or does it appear in conjunction with "ARCHER" or "ARP"? If a separate Archer identifier appears along with "95", it would be worth mentioning that in the how to.

    Hope that helps, and good luck with your continued research into this company and its related companies.

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  • dub_e_72
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    andrenafulva
    Does "95" on its own denote pressing by Archer as well as mastering by Nashville Matrix, or does it appear in conjunction with "ARCHER" or "ARP"?
    ”95” on its own denote pressing by Archer as well as mastering (plating) by Nashville Matrix. ”95” appears sometimes in conjunction with ”ARP” or ”ARCHER”, too ! actually, only ’40 items appear with ”95 + Archer”. please, feel free to update the profile if needed ! cheers’

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  • andrenafulva
    66

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    dub_e_72
    only ’Everything Is Going To Be Alright / One Hundred And 44 Thousand’ was found with ‘ARP + 95’, as well as, 50 items appear with ”95” on its own, and 40 items appear with ”95 + Archer”. please, feel free to update the profile if needed ! cheers’

    No; if "95" sometimes or usually appears on its own, the profile is fine as it is. I just wanted to check this was the case, as it's easy to make some tiny buy important omission when writing these 'how to' guides (as I well know from my own experience).

    Thanks for taking the time to confirm that it is correct as it is. Cheers to you!

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  • dub_e_72
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    better to continue this discussion here !

    history : Mad Mike, themselves are aware about...). please, can you help this way ? respectfully, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    please, Wilson Blue’ was pressed by archer, or... ?

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  • encarnita
    596

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    Sorry .... I don't know

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  • cassdetroit
    1

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    dub_e_72
    please, cassdetroit or encarnita, do you know if ‘Wilson Blue’ was pressed by archer, or... ?
    based on the numbering, the year of release and just the general look, I would say this was not pressed at Archer

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  • dub_e_72
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    cassdetroit
    the year of release
    you are right ! my suspicion was sometimes cassdetroit ?

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    hello dub_e_72’

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  • dub_e_72
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    as per ‘Archer Record Pressing still not own galvanization/plating equipment, actually... opinion ?

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  • dub_e_72
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    hello The Playground (5)’s catalogue was pressed there, as well, or there were a few exceptions ? thanks in advance for your answer. respectfully, d’

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  • trailoff
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    dub_e_72
    as per ‘Plainview Nights’, 2018 release reading ‘NRP’ on the run-out grooves, it looks like Archer Record Pressing still not own galvanization/plating equipment, actually... opinion ?


    According to the Archer website they can do cutting and plating as well as use stampers supplied by the customer.

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  • dub_e_72
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    trailoff
    According to the Archer website they can do cutting and plating as well as use stampers supplied by the customer.
    i agree cassdetroit (former plant)’s post above, about ‘the lathe they never have had in house’, but also, since i have overviewed every recent pictures / videos posted on their own facebook by others, and no one of thus are showing a galvanization’s equipment, or a lathe... for sure, they own a one color labels printer, a shrinkwrap machine ‘Cryovac’, but the rest... also, i have noticed they own two automatic presses, perhaps ‘Finebilt’ ones (don’t know exactly), and their old ‘Lened’ one has definitely disappeared (large bush stamped on the labels, as still found on pre-2000’s items). also, ‘NRP’ still means mastered at, for plated at, as per run-outs master list...

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

    dub_e_72 edited over 5 years ago
    hi Dear Man’ release was, or a few exceptions exist ? thanks in advance for your ! respectfully, d’

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  • dub_e_72
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    we also have this interesting database... imo, this company doesn’t have any identifier, or, we still never have found it.

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  • trailoff
    7

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    dub_e_72
    we also have this interesting picture, trailoff :o) google gives this interesting result about the company we can read in the library, but the database... imo, this company doesn’t have any identifier, or, we still never have found it.


    Off topic but that Mastercraft from Elizabeth NJ is in Discogs as Mastercraft Record Plating. It’s possible they don’t mark their work.

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  • trailoff
    7

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    Have a peek at this page, those same Mastercraft boxes are seen there.

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    trailoff
    Off topic but
    thanks for the links, and thanks for watching, trailoff... stay safe ! d’ )

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  • BjornGiorno
    3

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    dub_e_72
    Hello D, thank you for your message. Correct, all the releases except 01 and 02 are pressed at Archer as well as any releases going forward will be. Our engineer since the beginning Dietrich Schoenemann with Complete Mastering has been with them for a while. After A&R in Texas had issues with our first couple pressings we locked in at Archer. I had heard Archer was not taking on new clients a few years back but not 100% sure on that. Cheers

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  • dub_e_72
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    sorry for the convenient, CSM, were pressed there as well, or... ? thank you in advance for your helpful ! respectfully, d’

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  • dub_e_72
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    thank you so much for your precious post, BjornGiorno ! your label and productions are gold to my mind, a bit difficult to find in , but... do you see a convenient if i add the company to the releases which still do not read it (this, with a short note about the source, like actually requested by RSG §1.1.2), or... ?
    BjornGiorno
    I had heard Archer was not taking on new clients
    what a privilege ! :) this plant is so precious in our house and techno culture, you do great still ing this one ! i regret sometimes this one was still under-representated on the website, a question of a still unknown identifier, unfortunately. on this point, if you have heard about something like typical record’s translucency appearance, hidden stamp, exclusive pressing rings dimensions, or whatever... please, do not hesitate to let us know ! i’m probably not alone in this case on discogs, but there is still so many of their records in my collection i really would like to list the company... best regards, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    hello Archer Record Pressing, or... ? thanks in advance for your . respectfully, d’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    hello dub_e_72’

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    have added timeline of the pressings and updated job# format on Archer Record Pressing’s profile.
    thanks’

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  • waydownrecords
    22

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    Re: Al Smith (13)

    Hi, I recently added Runout information to Euphoria (37) - Lost In Trance which has an AS + NRP NR# which eventually lead me here.

    I’ve ed images of the Runout etchings from my copy here:
    https://m.imgur.com/a/KsmESkw

    For reference, below is a summary of the conversation from roughly a year ago:
    dub_e_72
    would like to invite uzumaki, who was about to add a picture of the etched ‘AS’, like found last month etched on one of the first Metroplex pressed by archer, in order to identify and/or to distinguish this one, which was probably different than ‘AS’ already standing for Ardent Studios in the master list... please, can you have a look and , uzumaki ? thanks in advance, d’

    uzumaki
    I sent you this in PM: https://imgur.com/jetVtGw - I don't know what the AS stands for or what company it should be added to, it may not even be AS.

    cassdetroit
    I asked George Ingram from Nashville Record Productions if he knew what "AS" stood for when appearing in run-out grooves of these releases. I mentioned Ardent and Studio A and his response was that he was fairly certain "AS" was the signature of Al Smith, a cutting engineer who used to work at both Ardent and Nashville Record Productions.

    George been doing this shit for 50 years, seems like he's known everyone in the small world of cutting engineers. I don't know if that's enough background to claim it as fact or gospel, but definitely something to keep in the back of our minds.

    dub_e_72
    excellent, cassdetroit !
    so many al smith on the database... but, it looks like Al Smith (13) is matching !
    and more especially the releases :
    - ’Dennis Linde - Under The Eye’ on which one he was credited c/o Nashville Record Productions
    - ’Johnny Reno, And His Sax Maniacs - Born To Blow’, mastered at Ardent Studios
    - or still, ’Flynn Johnson, Carolyn Johnson (5) - Free At Last’
    the 3 releases reading at the same time an etched ‘AS’ on the deadwax !
    please, can you have a look, sebfact, and let us know your opinion ?

    dub_e_72
    no idea how to add ‘AS’ in the master list, and how to distinguish this one from Ardent Studios. maybe in combination with NRP, but how to know if AS + NRP doesn’t stand for a cut done at NRP and a plating at Ardent Studios ? what do you need exactly to add Al Smith (13) to the list (now we know he exists...) ?

    sebfact
    Images of his scribe and from AS / NRP to see the difference :-)

    dub_e_72
    there is a link above, posted by uzumaki, i don’t know why my device cannot read... please, can you have a look ?

    sebfact
    That looks similar to the etch on the Ardent profile: S somewhat below A.

    What we need are pix of confirmed Ardent etchings and of confirmed Al Smith etchings.

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  • sebfact
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    Still too few etchings for Al Smith releases.... The only real hint that he may have also cut lacquers can be found on Dennis Linde - Under The Eye.

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  • waydownrecords
    22

    waydownrecords edited over 4 years ago
    Ah, interesting, thanks sebfact.

    What would be the guidance for adding LCCN and Credits information to a sub with this combination of NR# / AS?
    - The Nashville Record Productions page has no mention of this
    - The Sparrow (25) - Cleveland Rock & Roll as an example, but that sub only includes LCCN Mastered At 'Nashville Record Productions – NR8964'
    - I also have consulted your Master List of runout information - version 8...

    Incidentally, I added a new sub for The New Direction (4) - He Is Our Peace about a month ago which also happens to have this combination of Runout etchings, I’ve ed images from my copy here: https://imgur.com/a/JJRjELZ

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  • sebfact
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    waydownrecords
    but that sub only includes LCCN Mastered At 'Nashville Record Productions – NR8964'
    That has been corrected now.

    waydownrecords
    - I also have consulted your Master List of runout information - version 8...
    I have added NRP to the Ardent Studios entry.

    waydownrecords
    What would be the guidance for adding LCCN and Credits information to a sub with this combination of NR# / AS?
    Lacquer Cut At Ardent and Mastered at NRP.

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  • waydownrecords
    22

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    Excellent. Thank you for your guidance and expertise.

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  • electrophonic
    49.5k

    electrophonic edited over 4 years ago
    Hi dub_e_7

    As for my copy from:

    https://www.discogs.sie.com/release/3616315-Lets-Go-Out/history#latest

    The “Archer” name is not etched or stamped in the run outs, only “AR”

    There are 2/3 pressing rings on each side, depending on how to count the rings, because they appear as a spiral/votrex line in that area. Sort of like this: https://sewingbuddies.com.au/images/detailed/2/spiralcircle.png ... but with less lines

    The “AS” in the string is something i have still not figured out what that could be presented for. Maybe initials for a mastering engineer or lacquer cutter?

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    electrophonic
    Maybe initials for a mastering engineer or lacquer cutter?
    lacquer cut at run-out identification lists.

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  • electrophonic
    49.5k

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    dub_e_72
    lacquer cut at Ardent Studios, as per run-out identification lists.

    Okay excellent & thanx!

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    Diognes_The_Fox
    Thank you for your work here, cassdetroit.
    +1 cassdetroit : 🖐🏻 !

    and, thank you for your last pm. appreciated ! are you still on the line... ?
    cassdetroit
    I’ve been researching the plant and it’s releases solidly for ten years, have been a customer for about 16 years, have worked there and have combed through piles of their old invoices to discern all this information
    if yes, please may i ask you which decade(s), if it’s not too intrusive ?
    respect ! dub_e_72’ :-)

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  • cassdetroit
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    sent my first job to Archer in 2004, worked at Archer (briefly) in 2007, started catag AR numbers in March 2009, and first went through their old invoices in November 2009.

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  • dub_e_72
    42.3k

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    cassdetroit
    started catag AR numbers in March 2009, and first went through their old invoices in November 2009.
    old invoices including 80’s, 90’s and 00’s ?

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  • cassdetroit
    1

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    dub_e_72
    cassdetroitstarted catag AR numbers in March 2009, and first went through their old invoices in November 2009.old invoices including 80’s, 90’s and 00’s ?


    The invoices I was able to dig through start in 1969 around AR-900 something all the way through AR-7000 or so from 1986.

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  • dub_e_72
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    if i’m not plain wrong with my observation, cassdetroit, i would say every archer pressings were supplied by their unique Lened press between 1963 and circa 1995/96/97. isn’t it ? but, do you know exactly when the first additional SMT press was set-up in the plant during the 90’s ? then, i suppose a second SMT press more was acquired 5 or 10 years later, post-2000 in any case. do you how many press were there in 2007 ?

    sorry, i have so many questions about 1987-2008’s period... perhaps, Acme Vinyl Corp., from 1994 ; maybe pre-1994’s NSC cuts which do not read any other ppid were all pressed there between 87 and 94, finally !?

    in parallel, i also have noticed via my collection, the shrink-wrap was kind of a relevant option c/o Archer... in example, i’ve noticed when a production from D was pressed / re-pressed by URP, Hub-Servall, or other plants for whatever reason, generally those were not shrink-wrapped, as opposed to Archer versions which were always.

    an other interesting spec about this period, was the design of the labels. it seems Archer were not able to print more than one color ; this, until lately during the years 2000’s. isn’t it ?

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  • sebfact
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    Slightly OT: https://www.discogs.sie.com/forum/thread/944204 on smaller US pressing plants ring configurations (incl. Archer)....

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